Lucy Li Oral History, 2020/10/03


Title (Dublin Core)

Lucy Li Oral History, 2020/10/03

Description (Dublin Core)

Lucy Li speaks on her experience during the COVID-19 pandemic, including the cleaning ritual she has developed, her new recognition of the need for social interaction, remote work and school, and how the economy’s dip will affect her generation. She finds work-life-school balance, feeling stuck in her apartment, and connection with others challenging. She finds that nihilistic memes, social media management strategy, and park walks with friends keep her grounded. Li finds hope in community resilience.

Recording Date (Dublin Core)

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Controlled Vocabulary (Dublin Core)

Curator's Tags (Omeka Classic)

Contributor's Tags (a true folksonomy) (Friend of a Friend)

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Date Submitted (Dublin Core)


Date Modified (Dublin Core)


Date Created (Dublin Core)


Interviewer (Bibliographic Ontology)

Hope Johnston-Holm

Interviewee (Bibliographic Ontology)

Lucy Li

Location (Omeka Classic)

United States of America

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Language (Dublin Core)


Duration (Omeka Classic)


abstract (Bibliographic Ontology)

Lucy Li speaks on her experience during the COVID-19 pandemic, including the cleaning ritual she has developed, her new recognition of the need for social interaction, remote work and school, and how the economy’s dip will affect her generation. She finds work-life-school balance, feeling stuck in her apartment, and connection with others challenging. She finds that nihilistic memes, social media management strategy, and park walks with friends keep her grounded. Li finds hope in community resilience.

Transcription (Omeka Classic)

Hope Johnston-Holm 0:03
Okay, we are recording. My name is Hope Johnston-Holm. I am here with Lucy Li. The date is October 3, 2020. Time is 3:55pm. We are in the library downtown. Lucy, I want to briefly review the informed consent and deed of gift document that you signed for the COVID-19 oral history project for the Journal of the Plague Year: A COVID-19 Archive. It's a rapid response oral history archive to focus on lived experience during this epidemic so that professional researchers and the broader public can create and upload their oral histories to the open source, open access database. This study helps us collect narratives and understandings about COVID-19. Recordings, demographic information, and verbatim transcripts will be deposited in JOTPY and Indiana University Library System for the general public and researchers. Do you have any questions about the project?

Lucy Li 1:01

Hope Johnston-Holm 1:02
No? Okay. This is a voluntary thing, taking part in the study. You don't have to take part, you can leave, just walk out on me anytime. There will be no penalty or loss of benefits. [laughs] And this will not affect your current or future relations with Indiana University. So you can leave, and you'll be fine. So, participation means interview will be recorded in audio format and may be transcribed, it will be transcribed. Copies of transcriptions will be available to researchers and general public and your name and other means of identification will not be confidential. Any questions about that? Okay. So, besides the signed document, can you give me a verbal confirmation that you understand, understand and agree to the terms that your interview will be made available under the Creative Commons Attribution, Non-Commercial Sharealike 4.0 International license. And- but the COVID-19 oral history project has terms of fair use under U.S. Copyright Law, section 107 of the U.S. Copyright Act.

Lucy Li 2:22
I understand and agree to all of those terms.

Hope Johnston-Holm 2:25
All of them. Wonderful. Okay. Thank you so much for agreeing. Okay. So we can start the interview. So just go through background questions, first. What is the date and time?

Lucy Li 2:43
Today is October 3, 2020, 3:57pm.

Hope Johnston-Holm 2:52
Good job. What is your name? And what are the primary things you do on a day to day basis, for example, your job your extracurricular activities, etc? Anything that you find important.

Lucy Li 3:03
My name is Lucy Li. I'm a full time student at the University of Cincinnati. And I work part time at an insurance company.

Hope Johnston-Holm 3:15
Cool. What are the things you do when like a day to day basis that is involved with your different roles as a student and a worker? Do you work from home?

Lucy Li 3:22
I do. I do work from home. I go to school from home. All my classes are remote instruction. I go grocery shopping. I go outside to the park to leave my house. I spend time with people virtually through FaceTime and also in person and socially distance. Yep.

Hope Johnston-Holm 3:59
Where do you live? And what is it like to live there?

Lucy Li 4:02
I live in the Camp Washington neighborhood of Cincinnati. Because I live close to a main street, Colerain Avenue, it's very noisy. There are constant sirens and chatter and cars and people. It's an urban environment, but I enjoy it.

Hope Johnston-Holm 4:28
When you first learned about COVID-19, what were your thoughts about it? And how have your thoughts changed since then, at the beginning of the pandemic?

Lucy Li 4:37
At the beginning, I was extremely paranoid and anxious about things like grocery shopping and leaving the house and the apartment, to do anything. I was scared of hanging out with people, even socially distanced. I was scared of any activity that involved people, with strangers. But now I've more or less gotten used to the state of things. I have a ritual of cleaning that I do every time I come back to my place. I've realized that I need more in person interaction that I- than I thought that I needed at the beginning. So I've been carefully hanging out with people and just accepting that I need to live a little bit during this time.

Hope Johnston-Holm 5:43
Yeah, it's definitely a process of like, figuring out how- how to live now and how to still make a life that's enjoyable and full.

Lucy Li 5:52

Hope Johnston-Holm 5:53
Yeah. You described like a ritual of cleaning, what does that look like for you, and how did you arrive at it?

Lucy Li 6:00
So it usually happens after I return from the grocery store. Wash the produce in the sink, I'll wipe down like, materials like egg cartons and like drink containers. And like hard nonporous surfaces, I'll also wash those, but for surfaces that are more porous, I'll wipe them down with like antibacterial, antiviral wipes. I always, of course, wash my hands for at least 20 seconds scrubbing with soap, I will remove my mask carefully and fold it so that the clean side is out, flip it into a plastic bag, leave it open, so it can get some air, and place it right next to the door for the next time I leave the house. I will clean my car keys, maybe like every couple of days or so; I will also clean the inside of my car using wipes every couple of days or so. And then I now clean more frequently, just my apartment in general, because of the importance of cleanliness during this time.

Hope Johnston-Holm 7:26
What issues have concerned you about the COVID-19 pandemic? Like a lot of, we've talked about how a lot of issues intersect and sort of build off each other, but are there any like issues that come to the forefront of your mind as concerning right now?

Lucy Li 7:48
The state of the economy, I shudder to think how people my age are going to fare financially in the coming years because of this event. I also know that- I understand that people without, you know, income security, or any people who are lower income are much more disproportionately affected by this event. And as a student, I'm pretty low income even though you know I have my family, I know that I can ask them for help if I ever need it. But I- for reasons, I'm hesitant to do that. So I feel, I feel burdened financially right now. Yeah, those are the things that I can think of right now.

Hope Johnston-Holm 8:53
Thank you, that makes a lot of sense with everything that's going on to feel that way. So next topic genre, employment. Has COVID-19 affected your job and in what way?

Lucy Li 9:08
So over the summer, I started at the insurance company as an intern doing marketing work. Initially, before the pandemic, it was supposed to be in person, but then it was moved to remote. There was a learning curve at the beginning in learning the ins and outs of the job without that hands on in person interaction with coworkers and with no material like, reference material right for me, but I've gotten used to that because many other things like school were also moved to remote. So yeah, I think everything being moved to remote, that's the most significant impact of this pandemic in terms of work.

Hope Johnston-Holm 9:58
Yeah. Are there any like, interpersonal things with your job, moving to remoteness that have, like, affected you? I know you mentioned like Zoom calls.

Lucy Li 10:11
So it's been an interesting work experience so far because I've not met any of my coworkers in person yet. We've mainly communicated through emails, audio calls, and then one time, we all appear3e on video and that was first time I actually saw them in the virtual flesh. So I think, I feel the major difference between this job and other jobs before the pandemic is that I don't have that. It's a different kind of like, connection with coworkers. It's much more business oriented because even though we like, at the beginning of audio calls, sometimes we try to make small talk. There isn't that in person connection that, you know, you can't see their body language, there's not additional information to take in and connect to, that you would have in an in-person work environment. So that has made these coworker relationships, I think, much more cold. Not necessarily in a bad way. But just there's less- there's less, I guess there's less some, yeah, just less small talk and less knowledge about them outside of work in general. You don't get the whole package.

Hope Johnston-Holm 11:44
Yeah. I know that phenomenon of like, assume happy hours with your coworkers, sort of a pre like beginning of pandemic thing, it kind of is tapered off by now. Has COVID-19 changed your employment status in any way?

Lucy Li 12:00
No, I've been able to maintain this employment, luckily. I'm grateful for that.

Hope Johnston-Holm 12:07
Have you felt any like tension with keeping it? Has it been like difficult doing work or like completing things that you would, would keep your job?

Lucy Li 12:20
So I think just generally, with how monotonous things can seem at times, it's been hard to accomplish daily tasks, including work stuff. I think in- if I were to go in physically to the office, it would be much easier for me to finish things because there's that space that's specifically dedicated for work. But when you're at home, sleeping in the same space where you do work, and also go to school and also try to have fun, it can- it- there's- it can feel- there's- it can feel like you have less of a work life, school balance. Because it's hard to separate your mind from when you should be working or when you should be relaxing. Very much like a psychological relationship between- among like works in space, honestly.

Hope Johnston-Holm 13:37
That makes a lot of sense. I've heard that from a lot of people just talking about it. What concerns do you have about the effects of COVID-19 on your employment and the economy more broadly, you kind of touched on it earlier about how it can affect our generation more long term. Do you want to expand upon that with your own employment history, career status? Do you have any concerns? You don't have to have concerns, you're like “I got this job.” [laughs]

Lucy Li 14:16
I know, for myself, since I don't necessarily want to work in insurance long term, however, I know that the insurance industry is looking for young people in general, they're scrambling for that young people. So I know in the near future, if I'm not able to create the kind of career I want immediately, I can always just rely on insurance to make a living. Ultimately, I would love to go back to working for nonprofits but in a more tech capacity, but I don't- since nonprofits have never really had that kind of funding, and I don't imagine, especially now, like years from now, I don't think they're going to get any better about that, I know that trying to have people see the value in my work in pay me accordingly will be difficult. So yeah.

Hope Johnston-Holm 15:27
Has the COVID-19 pandemic affected the employment of any people you know, and how, in what ways?

Lucy Li 15:36
I have a friend who works at the Jack Casino downtown. During the pandemic, they were laid off when the casino was closed, and they received unemployment. And I think once the casino opened back up again, they had to start back at work immediately. And they constantly told me of the stress and the anxiety that they were feeling being back in an environment where it's largely uncontrolled because there's so many people, it's a pretty chaotic environment, because you know… And they constantly told me of clients who refused to wear masks, and also workers who didn't wear masks. I felt for them. I know other people who have been in the same boat, grocery store employees and also people who've lost their jobs and had to work at like restaurants and grocery stores. And the- the amount of anxiety that comes with working in that environment where you're interacting with public.

Hope Johnston-Holm 17:07
So the next genre of questions, family in the household. How has COVID-19 affected you and your family's day to day activities?

Lucy Li 17:17
So my parents they’re- they work from home currently. Well, my dad he- he spends two weeks at home and then two weeks at his work. My mom, she does telehealth at home. I think once in a while, she'll have to go into the office for maybe a couple of days, but then she and her colleagues take turns for that. So I think that they're relatively safe. They also live out in the suburbs where it's less populated. So I think my family's pretty safe. My mom's also a medical doctor, so she understands how to keep safe. And if they were- if one of them were to get COVID how to go about taking care of themselves. My brother, he lives in Clifton with two or three other roommates, so it's a less controlled environment. So sometimes I worry for him, but I know that he's pretty careful. Sometimes humorously overly careful. Yeah.

Hope Johnston-Holm 18:43
Does he work, as well as having…

Lucy Li 18:45
He's a full time student, he is not working. He, sometimes, I think he has two classes that are in person, the rest are remote. So he's been able to reduce his risk that way. But it's very scary to think that if one person in that household has it, or even in the apartment building as if it's basically- like, it's inevitable that he will get it as well. Yeah.

Hope Johnston-Holm 19:17
How are you managing day to day activities in your household?

Lucy Li 19:26
So oftentimes, the night before, I'll create a to do list and set a schedule, the timetable of when I should get things done. And I try to be as specific as possible so I know exactly what it is I need to do. And that kind of, that has been allowing me to be more accountable with myself. But it's hard because I live alone and there's nobody else who, you know, is going to hold me to anything. And if something, if I'm having a bad day, or a bad couple of days, sometimes it's just, it's very easy to like spiral and just like not do anything. And of course, I can always reach out to, you know, friends and my brother, virtually; it's, um, it's very different when you're living alone. It's- I almost sometimes I wished I was with another person. But I know that, or had a roommate, but ultimately, I- I recognize that living alone allows me to control my environment, reduce risks, so yeah.

Hope Johnston-Holm 20:50
What was it like moving during a pandemic?

Lucy Li 20:54
It was- there was a lot of paranoia involved.

Hope Johnston-Holm 21:01
When was it that you moved? Was it towards the beginning, or?

Lucy Li 21:05
This was in August.

Hope Johnston-Holm 21:06
Oh, okay.

Lucy Li 21:10
I was very serious about cleaning the apartment before I moved in. And when these people came in to help me install my window AC unit, they weren't wearing masks and I- I thought that it would be okay because it was during a brief period of time, and also I was wearing a mask. But at the end of that interaction, I felt that I should have asked them to wear masks because we were indoors. So I was a little bit worried about that. And so I didn't enter that room. Or didn't spend a lot of time in that room for like several days to, like, to wait for the- to wait for the COVID to die, I guess. But yeah, there was a lot of anxiety around.

Hope Johnston-Holm 22:13
So we talked earlier about COVID-19 affecting how you associate with friends and family through Zoom meetings. You had said that you had wanted to prioritize like in person meetings and you're doing that like as carefully as possible. Can you like elaborate on how you talked to friends and family and how you like, get that social interaction that we need?

Lucy Li 22:40
So at the beginning of the pandemic, I relied on FaceTime and social media and virtual stuff. But after a while, I realized that this was going to be a long-term thing and I should find ways to enjoy my life while at the same time being cautious, plus it was taking a toll. So I think, like all- it's all been socially distanced hangouts with people. We will go outside to the park, never like rarely anything indoors. Yeah, it's only been- we've only hung out in outdoor spaces like parks with masks.

Hope Johnston-Holm 23:35
A lot of parking this summer.

Lucy Li 23:36

Hope Johnston-Holm 23:37
Many, many parking. This is a general question, what have been the biggest challenges that you've faced during the COVID-19 outbreak? You can break it down be like, emotional, mental, or like that social interaction need or maybe the toll of like cleaning, really any- any challenge that you affect?

Lucy Li 24:04
I would say mental health because oftentimes, it can be hard to find things to look forward to. So what has helped is- has been trying to find small things to appreciate. I almost- I thought that working from home would be, like at the beginning it was, I was okay with it because it meant that I didn't have to spend more money on gas and more time commuting. And it was also a little bit less pressure working, starting the internship and being able to do things from the comfort of my home. But after a while, I realized I started experiencing the negative effects of not having that like work life space, work life balance, where I could designate a space to do work, and just like, leave the office for a day, I have to think about this. And that lack of balance is also pertained to schoolwork. And work, and both of those things have affected my- the lack of balance in my life in general, I think, with responsibilities, since those are two major responsibilities. Yeah, so um, you know, that lack of balance and- and being in my house for very long periods of time by myself, those things have contributed too, I think. And not being able to do activities that I used to do and also the cancellation of [unintelligible] that was, that was, um, made sense. But it was disappointing. I think those things have made living a little bit more difficult.

Hope Johnston-Holm 26:17
Thanks for your honesty. Are there any things that you, your family and friends have done for recreation, recreation during COVID-19? Shows, games, books, other kinds of entertainment that has occupied your time?

Lucy Li 26:36
Lots of going outside with friends.

Hope Johnston-Holm 26:41
Do you do any sports or things when you're outside?

Lucy Li 26:43
Walking in nature has really been the top thing. I’ve been more intentionally going out to exploring the Cincinnati parks with friends. I have- I know a lot of people who've gotten into puzzles and reading. And those are also things that I've been trying to get into, but with the lack of balance in my life, it can be hard to make time for those things. But that's what I- that's what I wish to be doing in the near future, I hope- or I hope to make more time for those things, especially as winter comes and there's less of- there's not going to be the opportunity to be constantly outside. Like you either- you have to find an indoor hobby to take up, maybe like knitting.

Hope Johnston-Holm 27:51
[laughs] I'm excited for all of these scarves and hats you're going to be making. Moving on to the community genre. Thinking through, like, the many different communities that you're involved in, whether it's school, club, church, job, ethnicity, how has the COVID-19 outbreak affected your community? Communities, plural.

Lucy Li 28:18
So of course, I'm a part of the student community thing, many students have been similarly impacted, and that they're disappointed that things are online or some, some students, they might have like, this was their first year of college and they didn't have that typical college experience. And I feel for them. And I think most students are just feeling anxiety in general about trying to get a job after graduating. I feel that. I think for- I'm also part of the LGBTQ community, and I know that us as a community, we're more disposed to depression and anxiety. And I know like, communities also, more frequently less income and have- have less access to institutional help and assistance. And so even though I am, you know, safely housed, and I have reliable employment, I know a lot of people who don't have those things, and they've had to move back home to their families where their identities aren't respected. And that's very heartbreaking. I know a lot of people who are in that situation. I also know like as a person who is a tail end millennial, and like, like in between millennials and Zoomers, [laughs] there's like a certain nihilistic humor that we all have because so much has happened during this year. And you, like commonly, I see this on social media, make memes, where people will- they cope by creating these memes. And that's something that I connect with. Yeah, I think memes are really effective, that memes, they mean something for sure. And especially now they're effective at coping with trauma, communicating problems, and creating content that is relevant, and like, this is an experience that we're all going through, so…

Hope Johnston-Holm 31:25
it's interesting to see something that's like, so internet based and can be laughed at so much, but actually, like, like you said, like, transmits trauma information and like, help people with that. It's- it's interesting, it's new. Have you seen the people around you change their opinions, day to day activities, or relationships in response to the pandemic?

Lucy Li 31:57
So I've seen a lot of people like these, like myself included, stopped hanging out with people in the beginning because it was too risky. I think in terms of maintaining relationships, there was also a shift to virtual platforms, when we couldn't hang out in person. So that was like the most significant shift in relationships in the beginning. But now for a lot of people, and myself included, we found ways to- we've convinced ourselves that hanging out in person with folks, those benefits outweigh continued virtual communication and the threat of Coronavirus. Yeah.

Hope Johnston-Holm 33:01
There's a tension between like taking care of your mental health versus taking care of your more physical with COVID. Yeah, that's definitely appeared in the news a lot about those tensions. Do you think like how we balance those tensions are going to change as we head into winter, and there's going to be less, like you said, less opportunity to be outside to do that physical social interaction?

Lucy Li 33:27
I think we'll find ways to continue to connect with people. I know that like hanging outside will still be an option, but it's not going to be as easy to do. I don't know how we'll handle it. I'm not sure. We'll see.

Hope Johnston-Holm 33:56
So the two key ideas that have emerged during the pandemic are self-isolation and flattening the curve. How do you- how have you and your friends and family and communities, how do you respond to like that freezing of those ideas and to like the- the medical requests for self-isolation and flattening the curve?

Lucy Li 34:18
I and all the people that I associate with, we wear masks. We take social distancing seriously. Yeah.

Hope Johnston-Holm 34:35
So the language isn't off putting at all?

Lucy Li 34:38
No. I don't view the language as off putting. I view it as necessary, and to ensure public health.

Hope Johnston-Holm 34:49
Have you or anybody known, gotten sick during the COVID-19 outbreak, and what has been your experience in responding to that sickness?

Lucy Li 35:00
So no one I know personally has gotten COVID. I know of someone, I know of an acquaintance like I've never met this person, they're on social media, my friend is friends with them. And I've been able to see their struggles, especially since they're immunocompromised, and they have other health issues going on. So they were one of the most vulnerable, so I was genuinely scared. After, you know, like seeing the things that they would post on social media, begging people to take COVID seriously, because “look what I'm going through right now.”

Hope Johnston-Holm 35:50
I know with social media, like, we largely have access to these people, like people will never meet people like around the world's stories that they can, like, update us on, and it's very personal. Have- has there been like a toll on you for seeing these people's stories? I know, like, I know, I've read on Twitter, like dozens of people's personal experiences with COVID, or the after effects of COVID, or just regular sickness during this pandemic and sometimes that can have a toll on people. How's it for you?

Lucy Li 36:29
I think if I'm reading the news headlines, religiously, like without a break, yes, I can get depressed about like the state of things, not just related to COVID. But I've been careful about how much social media I consume and the type of accounts I follow on social media. I only really use Instagram. And sometimes when I get overwhelmed, I just close the app for a couple of days.

Hope Johnston-Holm 37:21
Has that, like, social media management like changed over the course of the pandemic, or is that how you were like pre-pandemic?

Lucy Li 37:28
I think that's how I was pre-pandemic. I think, if anything, social media before I was hanging out with people in person, that was my main form of social interaction. So that has helped me a lot. Yeah.

Hope Johnston-Holm 37:49
Do you think COVID-19 has had like a larger effect on people's mental and physical health?

Lucy Li 37:59
Like which one has been more impacted, mental or physical health?

Hope Johnston-Holm 38:04
Like on a larger scale, do you think there'll be like, a lasting effect of this time on people's mental or physical health? Or do you think like, there has been effect in general?

Lucy Li 38:16
I definitely think that there will be a lasting impact on people's physical and mental health apart from the long-term health effects, health impacts of getting COVID, like breathing troubles and increased risk of blood clots and all those things. Besides those physical impacts, I also know that like, it's a very traumatic time for a lot of people. And also, because COVID has been deeply intertwined with politics, there's going to be a lot of social trauma and social distrust and distaste for certain groups of people. Yeah.

Hope Johnston-Holm 39:10
So moving on to the information section. What have been your primary sources of news during the pandemic?

Lucy Li 39:19
I receive the daily New York Times email update with the latest news, so I'll read that in the morning sometimes. And then, constantly on social media, people are posting about the latest, that's something I need to work on, social media for that as well or sometimes Reddit, the news front page.

Hope Johnston-Holm 39:43
Have your news sources changed during the course of the pandemic at all?

Lucy Li 39:49
So, I've only started- I subscribed to the New York Times daily notification during the pandemic and the reason why I did that was because I didn't want to go out to seek the news, I want it to be delivered to me in like a bullet point format of the most important things, I didn't want to get more than I needed or wanted. So that has been convenient for me. I don't have to spend an extra energy and labor, emotional labor to digest all the other noise out there.

Hope Johnston-Holm 40:27
How do you get like, are there differences in media platforms where you get like your national, global, local news, like a difference between those three?

Lucy Li 40:38
So sometimes I'll go to PBS or NPR to get- I guess, if I'm in the car, I think for both national, international, international and BBC, it's good for international. And I think New York Times is okay for, I think, all. And then local news, usually, I hear from friends and word of mouth about things that are happening. Yeah.

Hope Johnston-Holm 41:16
Do you think there are- what do you think are important issues that the media maybe is or is not covering during this time? Or what are some issues that you see are being reported on more often right now? Or issues that you would like to be more reported on right now?

Lucy Li 41:51
I think with the Black Lives Matters protests, the media likes to focus on the protests with the most, you know, violence and chaos. But in reality, it's like, still happening today, like people are peacefully protesting. But that's just like the nature of you know, the news cycle; they have to focus on like the most sensational things. Yeah, that's really it, I think.

Hope Johnston-Holm 42:34
So focusing on government, how have local city leaders and government officials in our community responded to the outbreak in Cincinnati and in Ohio?

Lucy Li 42:50
So the, I think her name was Amy Acton, I think she did a pretty good job at the beginning, in terms of quickly mandating the closure of bars and gyms and being very quick to act in informing people that they needed to wear masks. I was pleasantly surprised with the government's administration. Yeah, I don't believe there's a mask community in Cincinnati.

Hope Johnston-Holm 43:40
Would you want one?

Lucy Li 43:41
I yeah, I would- yeah, that would be very helpful.

Hope Johnston-Holm 43:47
Are there any specific instances of like places you go or want to go where you would like, change how our leaders have responded to the crisis?

Lucy Li 44:02
I don't go to very many places besides like the grocery store, and like outside areas, but I don't so- okay. I don't believe that bars should be open at this time. I also don't believe schools should be open.

Hope Johnston-Holm 44:25
Do you mean in person or online or?

Lucy Li 44:27
In person schools. I think online, like that's adequate for now like, that has to be done. Definitely not bars.

Hope Johnston-Holm 44:42
Alright. Last two question. Has your experience transformed how you think about your family, friends, and community in any way?

Lucy Li 44:52
I've come to realize that people are very resilient and- or, I always knew that, but especially during this time seeing how so many people have- they're surviving. Friends, the friend who works at the casino, they're trying their hardest to get by. And they're able to get to do that with the support of their friends. I think what's been happening has led me to embrace the fact that we help with our communities, and we can all be more likely to make it and have more resilience.

Hope Johnston-Holm 45:58
Knowing what you know now of the knowledge you've gotten through the pandemic, what do you think that individuals, communities, or government should keep in mind for the future?

Lucy Li 46:09
Repeat that question, please?

Hope Johnston-Holm 46:17
Knowing what you know now, what do you think that individuals, communities, or governments should keep in mind for the future?

Lucy Li 46:31
I think the most important thing is to separate public health and politics. Yeah, that- like, that's one of the main things.

Hope Johnston-Holm 46:48
So wrapping up the interview, are- is there anything else that you'd like to add about your experience that you feel would be useful for the future, for researchers and the public to know or understand about your lived experience during this time?

Lucy Li 47:32
Um… [pause] not really.

Hope Johnston-Holm 47:33

Lucy Li 47:35
That's a good question, though. I would need more time to think but that's- not really.

Hope Johnston-Holm 47:39
You can take some time now, if you want to think, I don't mind. Well, it doesn't have to be, you covered a lot.

Lucy Li 47:52
I think this is not necessarily just related to my lived experience. I think a lot of people can relate to this. But I think this has changed the way that we all relate to each other. I think- I've talked to a lot of people who said that they're much more intentional now about the people that they spend time with because like logistically, that's how they reduce risk. And also, like, there's only, like, I think this crisis has forced people to prioritize what's important. And the relationships that we have is one of those things because we have limited energy to dedicate since things are so taxing for a lot of people in day to day life. Yeah, it'll be very interesting to look at psychosocial impacts of this pandemic. Like on both a micro level and also a macro level, in terms of how different groups will view each other in years to come because of things that are happening now.

Hope Johnston-Holm 49:17
Cool, well, thank you for your time, Lucy Li. All right. End of recording.

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