Item
Cristiano Favazza Oral History, 2020/11/27
Media
Title (Dublin Core)
Cristiano Favazza Oral History, 2020/11/27
Description (Dublin Core)
C19OH
Recording Date (Dublin Core)
Creator (Dublin Core)
Controlled Vocabulary (Dublin Core)
English
Education--Universities
English
Recreation & Leisure
English
Health & Wellness
English
Clothing & Accessories
English
Food & Drink
English
Protest
Curator's Tags (Omeka Classic)
Collection (Dublin Core)
Collecting Institution (Bibliographic Ontology)
University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire
Curatorial Notes (Dublin Core)
Date Submitted (Dublin Core)
01/02/2021
Date Modified (Dublin Core)
04/07/2022
05/18/2022
Date Created (Dublin Core)
11/27/2020
Interviewer (Bibliographic Ontology)
Crystalina Peterson
Interviewer Email (Friend of a Friend)
peterscm3359@uwec.edu
Interviewee (Bibliographic Ontology)
Cristiano Favazza
Location (Omeka Classic)
United States
MN
Saint Paul
55106
Format (Dublin Core)
Video
Language (Dublin Core)
English
Duration (Omeka Classic)
36:18
abstract (Bibliographic Ontology)
Cristiano Favazza is a resident of Minnesota and a student at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, and an employee at ACE Hardware in his hometown of Saint-Paul, Minnesota. In this interview, Cristiano discusses his experiences with COVID as a college student and a retail worker, and details what it was like to be overseas in a COVID hotspot as a study-abroad student. He also shares some of his thoughts and reactions to the media outlets’ rhetoric and some of the things he has struggled with due to the pandemic. Cristiano also tested positive for COVID-19 days before our interview, and he shares his experiences with the disease.
Transcription (Omeka Classic)
Crystalina Peterson: Okay, so today is November 27th, 2020, it is 7:53pm. Global COVID cases are 60.5 million with 526, sorry, [laugh] with 1,400,000 confirmed deaths COVID related. In the US, there's 12 million point, or 12.4 million cases and 257,000 deaths. In Wisconsin, there's 398,000 cases and 3,400 deaths. And in Minnesota, which is where my interviewee is, is at 295,000 cases, with 3,500 deaths. And again, those numbers are rounded down. So, we'll go ahead and get right to it. I'll have you introduce yourself with your name, age, ethnicity, or race, occupation, and all of that good stuff.
Cristiano Favazza: Yeah, okay, so yeah, my name is Cristiano Favazza. I am 23. I'm Italian American. And I work at a hardware store. But I am currently actually infected with COVID. So, I'm not working right now.
CP: Which was kind of a curveball. [laugh]
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: Yeah. So how are you faring with that so far?
CF: Ah, it's all right. It's on and off of like, if I feel sick or not. Mainly, I'm not suffering from a lot of the respiratory stuff, but I am suffering from th- fatigue, and stomach pain, and a lot of that stuff. So that's not great.
CP: All right. Where were you when you first heard about COVID? And like, when things first started getting shut down? And what were your initial thoughts?
CF: Well, when things started getting shut down, I was actually in Italy for a study abroad. When I first heard about it all together, it was, you know, back in September [November 2019] with everybody else, but it was in China, no one cared at that time, they thought it was gonna disappear. But yes, when everything was getting shut down, I was actually on a study abroad in Italy. And it was still pretty light. I mean, things were closing. And, like, it was a lot- it was all over the news- I actually have several photos of newsstands in Italy with like, posters that looked like they were out of a zombie movie that would like- just in gigantic letters, that would say “virus" and "this many deaths" and all sorts of stuff. But I was actually in Florence, which is like the major tourist city, and nothing was really shut down. No one was really- really wearing masks yet. The big thing that started was outside of almost all the pharmacies, there'd be like, signs and [unintelligible] like, "out of hand sanitizer, no more hand sanitizer," and like, stuff like that, but i- i- it wasn't really doing very much yet. So, we went to class like normal. And it was interesting.
CP: Yeah, for sure. And then, I know, you had mentioned before that you got sent back from your study abroad and- when was that and what was it like trying to like- get back to the US in the middle of a pandemic?
CF: Well, I could actually- like go back a little bit more- mid- mid study abroad, so probably around mid-February, was when things are starting to get like a lot worse. And like areas like Milan were getting quarantined, and various other little cities were getting quarantined, and everyone's kind of still panicky, but was trying to like stay hopeful and stuff and be like- Oh, this was back when like, if two cases showed up in a town- oh, my God, everyone's got to panic- and we got to like, shut everything down- like we're closing the borders kind of stuff. But we were trying to stay hopeful. We were worried. Really, bizarrely, a couple of the really rich schools in the United States called their students back like mid-February. Some people who- my- my roommates in Italy met and we're hanging out with, were from some like really prestigious school in New York, and they tried to get the students back, like, right away. "We're paying for their plane tickets," and freaking out, just like got them out. Ah, it was a little bit longer for the UW system and a couple other systems around like Minnesota and Midwest areas to like, worry about it. But it was so strange, because like one by one, my roommates just were getting pulled out by their schools, and I was the last one left with one other guy for about a week. Until we got pulled out. But that, that's pretty much it. Is your audio working?
CP: Yeah.
CF: Okay, there cuz you I saw you- I saw your mouth moving, but I didn't know if you're actually saying anything.
CP: No, I'm good.
CF: Okay, that's fine.
CP: Yeah. So, like, flying- like internationally was that really- like, did they cause a lot of problems like when you got back stateside? Or was it normal?
CF: So that's what was strange like- again, this was this was still back like, I feel like people forgot- like, back in February- no one had been doing very much yet they- they were kinda like- people were talking about being afraid, but I don't know it did- You know, it didn't seem as bad. And I was told, like by some school email, like, "oh, make sure to get to the airport an hour early, or an hour before you think you would get there, you're gonna have to go through all these screens, we all these tests, they're gonna be scanning your tempa-," none of that. Literally none of that. I think like, when I finally got to my gate, there was a weird little checkpoint that you had to prove you're an American citizen, which you'd think would normally be a thing. But that's usually in another part of the airport where you make sure- you have to go through the customs and stuff. This one was a little odd. I never experienced that before. And- but they didn't take my temperature, they just wanted to make me prove that I was like going back to the United States for real. And, yeah, I just- I had to make like multiple stops. I had to stop in Portugal for a little bit. Nothing was really happening there. Same thing, no- no masks, yet. A lot of people still in public areas. When I was in the airport, nobody was wearing masks. And then I got back to Boston. And I was delayed there for like 14 hours because they kept changing my flight. I felt like that might have to do with COVID lots of things were really hec- a lot of people were freaking out. And like worried about stuff. But no one was like wearing masks yet. And, taking- like there wasn't like hand sanitizer stations set up yet stuff like that. There was no social distancing. All the restaurants were still open. It was more like, "Oh, no, I don't want to get stuck in this other location. I just want to go home."
CP: Yeah, that makes sense. And it was kind of like, everybody was worried about it. But also, like nobody was willing to do anything about it.
CF: Yeah.
CP: Yeah, I remember that. Because out here- all of our travel got canceled. I was supposed to go to Washington, DC, myself with a school trip. And like, I had just gotten my nails done and my hair was done and everything. I was so excited to go on this trip. And then like, the day before our flight was supposed to leave- we had already checked into our flight virtually- at the airport through the airport app, and like, everything got canceled, [laugh] we were all like, devastated. We were so excited to go to this thing, and then we couldn't do it. And then within- by the end of the next week, campus had been shut down, anything that was in person have been, you know, closed for three weeks. And we didn't come back to campus at all the rest of the year.
CF: Yeah
CP: So yeah, it was definitely a really weird thing. And it just kind of was like a light switch went on. But before anything got canceled for the university, like people were hoarding toilet paper, and the shelves were already empty. It was insane. [laugh]
CF: Yeah, yeah, I remember that. So, my next experience is pretty interesting. My family was super worried about COVID and all that stuff, right? Because back- it was- this was like, right- as people were getting sent back, that's when, like- I think, before I even got back to America, Italy had closed its borders completely, they went to red zone and closed their borders. So, I got out like two days before they locked down. Then I got back and my parents were freaking out. So, they had me go to my cabin for three months.
CP: Wow.
CF: Yeah. Yeah, I was- I was in- I was in my cabin from March to April [both talking] sorry, March to May. Yeah. March- March, April, May. Yeah.
CP: Where's your cabin located?
CF: Pine city, Minnesota. I mean, it is a small- it's small but you know, it has- it's not like a cabin like log- hey, you know, it's- it's got heat. It's got internet, so I was fine. You know, I still had all my- all- a lot of my classes from Italy got transferred online. Kind of, I mean, I dropped two of them because they just weren't gonna work digitally. But, other than that, it was pretty strange being up there. After- after, like a couple of weeks I, it got warmer, so I'd walk like two miles to town with a gigantic military backpack and go to the Walmart and like, buy as much food as I could shove that thing and walk back. And again, this was still like- I had masks. I was wearing masks when I went to the Walmart. But like, this is still a big time where people weren't wearing masks, and one of the weirder guys I saw, you know, had a snorkel, that was his mask.
CP: Only in Minnesota. [laugh]
CF: Yeah, I guess, you know- I don't know, or more like only at Walmart.
CP: Right, right, exactly. So how was that like impacting your perspective of COVID- like being in Italy, and then getting back here right before they shut down and then like having to go isolate for three months in your family's cabin? Like, how did that change your perspective about all of that going on?
CF: Oh, I'm not gonna lie I- I suffer from like really bad anxiety. I am also obsessed with a lot of video games that have to do with survival stuff. I- I- I was like really worried, I thought like, this was actually become like a, extreme pandemic. And I was getting like, if I- if I read anything online, that the government is, like, making, like, camps to put people in who are infected, I am like- I started like making a map of the houses up there that I knew nobody was in because they were cabins. I knew I could get supplies from them if I had to. I was really paranoid constantly. But I was just sitting and playing video games, mainly to distract myself. But.
CP: And that's really, really interesting. Because in my other interview that I did, with a friend of mine, when he got his stimulus check, he went out and bought guns, because he was like, I mean, I'm not intending to shoot somebody. But if they want to come here and get stupid, I'm gonna protect my family. So, it was really, really- and it's really interesting how that's impacted everybody in a different way, but also like, kind of in the same way, we just react in a different way.
CF: Mm hmm. Yeah, no, I mean, I honestly, I was even considering that. I had one of my hand guns up there, but that was it. And I was considering having to go get more, because I was worried it was going to, like, turn it like this full scale looting. Like people would be fighting each other. I was afraid of that. I- like obviously, it didn't happen. But with like, the s- way- way, the way some articles were being phrased, it sounded like this was gonna get to like some sort of full scale, like, half the population was gonna be dead, and people would be fighting and there's gonna be like complete civil unrest, the government's no longer gonna help us. And this was even back with like, regular news sources, not even the fringe ones I read.
CP: Right. And this was like, right before the- the racial, like, injustice movement
CF: Yeah, right before that. Yeah, that- that- that didn't hit- that didn't hit till about June.
CP: Mm hmm.
CF: So, I also just gonna plug my laptop in, I'm still here.
CP: Oh, yeah, sure, no problem. [laugh] So I'll go ahead and ask the next question here.
CF: Yeah.
CP: So, I know you have some- I think you said you have family in Italy?
CF: Yeah.
CP: So, have you talked to any of them about like, COVID and the shutdowns and everything and how was their experience?
CF: They, you know, they all actually see- said it was like, not that bad. I haven't talked to them in a little bit. I could ask them again, soon- it's hard to get ahold of them. Like my uncle is still working, he- he's- he's a photographer for Vogue. And he had like, recently went to Russia. And so, I say recently, I mean, the past, like, month, so I guess they're still doing stuff. My other family all lives in a really small fishing village in Sicily. And I think they were fine. It was a really tiny village. So, I- I guess I never heard anything negative. I talked to my dad. I asked him like, how is everyone doing and stuff and he said, "Everyone seems to be doing okay." So, I don't think was too bad for them.
CP: That's good. I know there's been sections of Italy that have like having hospitals completely overflowing. And they-
CF: Oh yeah, no.
CP: -massive death counts. And so like, I was interested in- It's not like that everywhere. I wonder why that is? Because they're in such a small area that it's not impacting them?
CF: That, probably small area. Maybe also following lockdown rules. Europe is doing a little bit hardcore compared to we are, compared to how a lot of people in the United States think it is. And they think I think they're they think they're being oppressed, it's like, yeah, no, no you're not. When I- when I was back- I guess I can say back when I was in Italy and everything was taking off. Other than like I said, like the newspapers, it looked like they were out of a movie, outside the hospital, there was like tents already set up, like with the gigantic biohazard symbol on the side and to like- treat people like- triage centers, basically. And they were being you know, like- so i- so, in Italy, almost all churches are guarded- guarded by the Carabinieri, which is like the military police. And they have like, the armored vehicles, and like, body armor and machine guns and everything. These were now also been stationed outside the hospital, not just outside holy sites. So, they were being really like- kind of aggressive.
CP: Yeah, that's really interesting- and like, wow, like, I, if that happened here, because- you know, if we- if we had military police outside of our hospitals, people would lose their minds.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: That's really interesting. So, I know that you said, you were studying abroad, when everything kind of started getting shut down. And you get- you came back and everything. But since then, how has your education and your job been impacted by COVID?
CF: So, yeah, other than- well, are- sure. So, when I first came back, and I was in quarantine, I was still in school, through the study abroad, they tried their best to make classes online. I was in four classes at the time, I was in a history of film class, Italian cooking class, a jewelry making class, and- and just Italian 101. When I got back, I dropped out of Italian 101 because I just thought it would be really difficult to try to learn in another language online, especially in the style of class it was- because it was- it was supposed to be an immersion class where your teacher just tried to teach you in Italian, and you're just supposed to, like, hopefully figure it out, I guess. So, I dropped that one- I dropped jewelry making because obviously, it was not gonna be the same. It was really disappointing. Because, like, w- we- I was actually making stuff in the class. And they were like, "okay, well, now the classes like theory of jewelry making, read all these books." And it's like, yeah, I'm that I'm not doing that, I don't care, I want to have, I want to have the workshop where I get to make things. I stayed in Italian cooking, which was really disappointing because in the class, we had- one, our teacher was like, one of the head chefs at the Four Seasons in Florence, and then we had like, a, like, professional culinary kitchen was our classroom. It was amazing. The class got turned into, like, learning about the culture of where different foods come from, and why, and like, why certain parts of Italy, like grow what they grow, or why they're famous for like, different things. Which was really still a cool class, but obviously sucked because it wasn't a cooking class anymore. And then I stayed in history of film, because that was already that's just a basic class, you know- that- that was easy to transfer online.
CP: Yeah. So, like, so did you get to like experiment with any Italian cooking when you were, like, in your cabin?
CF: Yo, yeah, no, when I was there. Oh, no, I think my cabin- no, not really. No.
CP: That's kind of a bummer.
CF: It was too difficult to get the ingredients pretty much.
CP: Oh, I suppose. Yeah, that makes sense. And I suppose they have probably, like, different tools and things that a lot of the typical American kitchens might not have on hand.
CF: Oh, there's another big, I had none of the fancy tools or anything, so. Yeah,
CP: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, so what has been, like, the biggest challenge for you during this pandemic?
CF: I guess it's just like, paranoia. I mean, like- I don't- I'm not afraid like I have it right now, and I have absolutely no fear that I'm going to die. I don't even think I'm going to end up in the hospital. But I am worried about people like my grandfather. He's you know, 91, I don't want him to get it. So that that's been the biggest fear. My fears from back in like March of the civil unrest are pretty much gone. That has now moved on to fear of civil unrest because of the political situation. They just transferred. But not- not yeah, just risk of people, like elderly people I know getting sick, that's about it, you know. But I- you know, I didn't actually finish the previous question is- so after I was freed from my cabin imprisonment, I got my job back at the hardware store. This was again back in summer where like- I feel like now, people are a lot more differently afraid. Because when I was at the cabin, yes, all the toilet paper, hand sanitizer, bleach all that stuff was constantly gone from the Walmart, you know, and I got back to the ACE [hardware store] and we like rem- we like changed the section that we normally had for one product and just completely stocked it with like 90 cases of bleach, stockpiles of toilet paper, hand sanitizer, every- and now guess what, we have way too much of that and can't sell it. But we were selling all that stuff, and it was pretty fine. Honestly, work- work was really normal, other than like, we all had to wear masks constantly. We all had- we all were- had hand, we had like bottles and things and hand sanitizer all over the store to, like, use immediately. We were doing the social distancing. We have like the glass panel in front of the- the plexiglass panel in front of the register, so you don't have the contact. But it was pretty normal. I mean, the weirder things were, we got like strange customers coming in who were acting obnoxious, like- like one woman came in with a yardstick and was like literally holding it out in front of her, and like yelling at anyone who got closer than that to her. That was just really amusing. I mean, it wasn't really a problem, she bought stuff, I guess. We do enforce that customers have to wear masks when they come in- no, I shouldn't say that. Because back in about June, July, that wasn't a government order yet. So, we weren't doing that. We weren't enforcing that. Now we are, because now it's part of the government order. Yeah, we had another guy, we had another person come in, it's like, woman started yelling at a guy cuz he didn't have a mask on. And he started yelling back, that he was a microbiologist, and the "masks don't do anything." All this weird stuff. I mean. Yeah. And then, interestingly, because we mentioned- we mentioned earlier, like, the civil unrest in Minnesota due to the death of George Floyd and everything, everything shifted, it was immediately like the pandemic isn't happening anymore. Because we had way more people coming in to buy- they were coming in to buy- what do you call, plywood, and nails, and hammers, and drills, and nail guns- or cleaning supplies, because there was a big effort with a lot of people to clean up the city after- after- like the day after the night- the next morning. So, we had like a lot of people buying push brooms and spray paint remover, spray paint remover was one of the really big ones we sold a ton of, and fire extinguishers, tons of fire extinguishers. We were uncomfortable, like politics aside, we were uncomfortable, some people did come in and buy sledge hammers and axes. We were not allowed to say we couldn't sell them those. So that was strange. But again, like the I guess the reason I'm saying this, because it was like, yeah, COVID no longer is a problem right now, this is the thing. And that, that was pretty interesting to us. And that was also back when the mask law hadn't been enforced yet. So, lots of people weren't wearing masks at all. As the employees, we were required by our boss to do it. So, you know, we had to.
CP: Right, and like, I mean- and I remember because I have- I have a friend who lives in St. Paul. He is immunocompromised, so he has like, the top grade medical masks. And he went to the protests because he's like, "if I'm gonna die, getting sick, through a mask, it's gonna be standing up for other people's rights," [both talking-unclear] he really was passionate about it. And he actually got arrested and booked at least three times [both talking] And the last time that he was booked and released, they took his mask and they wouldn't give it back, and that's when he decided he couldn't risk it anymore.
CF: Well, that also sounds illegal. But you know, yeah.
CP: Yeah, exactly. So, he was like, it is now to the point where, like, my actual health is being actively jeopardized, and I can't do it anymore.
CF: Mm hmm. I know, that makes sense.
CP: Like that attitude really did shift during, you know, like- even in July, a lot, because everybody was now focused on this really huge, like, social justice issue. And you're kind of like- I mean, we're still gonna, like, some people are gonna wear masks and other people aren't. But that's not as big of a problem right now. This is a bigger deal. So yeah, I remember, like, kind of how that changed people's attitudes for at least a little while.
CF: Yeah, I mean, you know, the worst time that that could have happened- I mean, it shouldn't have happened at all. But the worst time that could have happened is now, it was like, you know, all my friends want me to go- have me go with them. And so, I- I am not going- I mean, I- you know, I support everything, but I am not going out in public with hundreds of people in giant crowds. I- I- you know, I'm just not gonna do that.
CP: Yeah, and for me, like, the biggest thing is, I have- I have a little one. Me too. And like, that was the biggest part of the reason that I didn't participate in a lot of stuff myself, even though like, I'm super passionate about it. I couldn't justify exposing myself knowing that I could bring it home to her and she's too little to like, fight it off. If she were to get it more seriously than others might, you know- I might survive. But that doesn't mean that she would, or you know, that my- that her- like, her dad. He works as a veterinary's assistant. So, he works in health care. So, if he exposes a customer who's elderly, because she's exposed to it or whatever, so that makes things a little more complicated.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: For sure. But yeah, like you said, like, just kind of always like- thinking about, like- focusing on who can this impact beyond myself.
CF: Mm hmm. That's what I worry about. So.
CP: Yeah, definitely. So, I think this is the last question here. What do you think, is the most important lesson of COVID-19 that should be passed on to future generations or to the government or to people right now?
CF: Hmm. That's actually a really difficult one. Because honestly, I have no idea- cuz I have no idea how this is going to play out. I mean, I would like- you know, everyone always says, "I wish things would go back to normal" and then other people, "but yeah, they're never going back to normal." And it's, I don't know, I guess it's- it is like next time, there is a virus that pops up in some place that isn't close to us, and people act like they don't care, start research a lot sooner. I guess. I mean, I know the biggest diff- difficulty was China doesn't like us. And when the virus first was, like, breaking out there, and there was no cases anywhere else, the U.S. probably couldn't get any form of sample to do research on. So, if the- I guess yeah, the biggest thing to learn is if there's ever another small outbreak somewhere, research should be started being done sooner, and the government should enforce things faster, and handle things better. And be less obnoxious about stuff. So.
CP: Base- maybe like base, what they're saying in like science and facts and not just on political opinion.
CF: Yeah.
CP: Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I like, I think that's one of the things and it's- like, all the way around. It's a lot of things have been based on this kind of, like fear of the government or whatever. When [both talking-unclear]
CF: Well, it's been such a bizarre year, though. Like, to think about like- you know, first we had that scare with Iran because we fired the missile on them. Then we had the whole like, Australia was on fire. Then we had anything to do with Trump at all, whether you like him or not, all that stuff. And then the virus and then poor handling, then riots, then an election, I mean, what can you do? You know.
CP: It's definitely like, it makes- and like, we are, we are both in a history class. And like looking at it through like, a historical lens, you can kind of see, like these themes that have played out over time. And we just sit here and go, "didn't we already do this lesson?"
CF: I find it the- one of the things, I still find like it was funny and ironic is that, you know, when was when was the last pandemic 100 years ago? Pretty much. Exactly.
CP: Yeah. It's really interesting how that kind of stuff plays out. And we can see, like, how people reacted to things back then, when they didn't have as much access to science and knowledge about viruses and bacteria as we do now.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: And yet, there's a lot of people that are still reacting the same way.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: And it just kind of makes you think about like, why is that? Is it like a social thing? Is it a cultural thing? Or is it because- is our education system failing? Like we don't, like it's kind of hard to like, pinpoint that. But there are so many different factors that it could be.
CF: How many people did you say died worldwide so far, by the way, um,
CP: So, the actual counts- at last count was 1,426,101 deaths, and that was right before I hopped on here with you.
CF: Oh, well, you know, we're good. Because 18-year- 1918 pandemic was 500 million. So
CP: That's yeah, yeah.
CF: Yeah.
CP: Yeah, that I mean, like, if you think about it on that scale, I mean, it's already been so
CF: Sorry, I didn't mess it up. Five 500 million were infected. 50 million died.
CP: 50 million died. So, I mean, if you think about how-
CF: We're at- we're at what, one? Or 2% right now?
CP: Yeah, we're at, yeah, 1 million deaths. And 60 million infected.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: So.
CF: And obviously healthcare was a lot worse back then, everything was dirty, you know?
CP: And, like, how quickly can that change? You know, I know a lot of people kind of compare those numbers like that looking for the death rate. But you really have to look at like the completed cases. Because those ones that are still active, like you, we don't know how that's gonna turn out. Now, hopefully, obviously, we're always hoping for the best but-
CF: I also know that- the main reason why I'm not scared is like, the risk of death for someone my age, and without underlying conditions, it's really low. I don't fear that I'm actually gonna like end up hospitalized. I just don't think it's really possible. I don't have you know, I don't have asthma. I don't have any form of underlying health condition. I don't have the weakened immune system. I know some people who are like- like, I can't remember the term for but it's- they're like, deficient. I mean, immune deficient or something.
CP: Immunocompromised.
CF: Yeah, immunocompromised. And I, I just don't think it's a big threat to me. It sucks. And I hate being sick. And it is on and off. Like I said, some days- like right now I kind of feel fine. But for all I know, later tonight, I will have like, severe stomach pain. So,
CP: Right. And then you know, that's one of those ones, like- just like the main strain and then multiple sub strains of coronavirus that cause COVID-19, they're all so- they all act so different. The only thing that's consistent is that we know that they're spread through aerosolized means, you know from mouth to air. So that's the only thing that's the same about all these little sub strains that are part of this group of COVID-19 viruses. And it's really- really, really unique because we have to treat each strain differently because they can all result in hospitalization. But depending upon which strain and how it breaks out, like it has to be treated differently. So, it's just like you said, it's just been an interesting year. [laugh]
CF: Yeah, it's bizarre. [snigger]
CP: Definitely. And I mean like, I don't think, I know I never thought that I would see a day like today, like what's going on and you're- you're about 10 years younger than I am. So, I'm sure it's even more of a shock to you.
CF: A mix, again I play a lot of video games. So, but, yeah, no, I- I do just want things to go back to normal. I don't know how well they're gonna go back to normal. This whole election was so bizarre. Mainly because honestly, everybody I know was like, you know, vote for the lesser of two evils. And it's like that, during a pandemic, that's not something I want to look at, like going forward. It's like, great. So, the only options are to people who are problematic, and we still have to figure out what's going on forward with this virus. Great.
CP: Right. And it's, I mean, it really kind of lends to like this whole year of absolute uncertainty and upheaval.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time. This was actually really, really valuable. I think you have some really, really interesting perspectives that we can add to the archives and make it really cool. So, I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording-
CF: Sure yeah.
CP: And then we can chat a little more. Thank you!
Cristiano Favazza: Yeah, okay, so yeah, my name is Cristiano Favazza. I am 23. I'm Italian American. And I work at a hardware store. But I am currently actually infected with COVID. So, I'm not working right now.
CP: Which was kind of a curveball. [laugh]
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: Yeah. So how are you faring with that so far?
CF: Ah, it's all right. It's on and off of like, if I feel sick or not. Mainly, I'm not suffering from a lot of the respiratory stuff, but I am suffering from th- fatigue, and stomach pain, and a lot of that stuff. So that's not great.
CP: All right. Where were you when you first heard about COVID? And like, when things first started getting shut down? And what were your initial thoughts?
CF: Well, when things started getting shut down, I was actually in Italy for a study abroad. When I first heard about it all together, it was, you know, back in September [November 2019] with everybody else, but it was in China, no one cared at that time, they thought it was gonna disappear. But yes, when everything was getting shut down, I was actually on a study abroad in Italy. And it was still pretty light. I mean, things were closing. And, like, it was a lot- it was all over the news- I actually have several photos of newsstands in Italy with like, posters that looked like they were out of a zombie movie that would like- just in gigantic letters, that would say “virus" and "this many deaths" and all sorts of stuff. But I was actually in Florence, which is like the major tourist city, and nothing was really shut down. No one was really- really wearing masks yet. The big thing that started was outside of almost all the pharmacies, there'd be like, signs and [unintelligible] like, "out of hand sanitizer, no more hand sanitizer," and like, stuff like that, but i- i- it wasn't really doing very much yet. So, we went to class like normal. And it was interesting.
CP: Yeah, for sure. And then, I know, you had mentioned before that you got sent back from your study abroad and- when was that and what was it like trying to like- get back to the US in the middle of a pandemic?
CF: Well, I could actually- like go back a little bit more- mid- mid study abroad, so probably around mid-February, was when things are starting to get like a lot worse. And like areas like Milan were getting quarantined, and various other little cities were getting quarantined, and everyone's kind of still panicky, but was trying to like stay hopeful and stuff and be like- Oh, this was back when like, if two cases showed up in a town- oh, my God, everyone's got to panic- and we got to like, shut everything down- like we're closing the borders kind of stuff. But we were trying to stay hopeful. We were worried. Really, bizarrely, a couple of the really rich schools in the United States called their students back like mid-February. Some people who- my- my roommates in Italy met and we're hanging out with, were from some like really prestigious school in New York, and they tried to get the students back, like, right away. "We're paying for their plane tickets," and freaking out, just like got them out. Ah, it was a little bit longer for the UW system and a couple other systems around like Minnesota and Midwest areas to like, worry about it. But it was so strange, because like one by one, my roommates just were getting pulled out by their schools, and I was the last one left with one other guy for about a week. Until we got pulled out. But that, that's pretty much it. Is your audio working?
CP: Yeah.
CF: Okay, there cuz you I saw you- I saw your mouth moving, but I didn't know if you're actually saying anything.
CP: No, I'm good.
CF: Okay, that's fine.
CP: Yeah. So, like, flying- like internationally was that really- like, did they cause a lot of problems like when you got back stateside? Or was it normal?
CF: So that's what was strange like- again, this was this was still back like, I feel like people forgot- like, back in February- no one had been doing very much yet they- they were kinda like- people were talking about being afraid, but I don't know it did- You know, it didn't seem as bad. And I was told, like by some school email, like, "oh, make sure to get to the airport an hour early, or an hour before you think you would get there, you're gonna have to go through all these screens, we all these tests, they're gonna be scanning your tempa-," none of that. Literally none of that. I think like, when I finally got to my gate, there was a weird little checkpoint that you had to prove you're an American citizen, which you'd think would normally be a thing. But that's usually in another part of the airport where you make sure- you have to go through the customs and stuff. This one was a little odd. I never experienced that before. And- but they didn't take my temperature, they just wanted to make me prove that I was like going back to the United States for real. And, yeah, I just- I had to make like multiple stops. I had to stop in Portugal for a little bit. Nothing was really happening there. Same thing, no- no masks, yet. A lot of people still in public areas. When I was in the airport, nobody was wearing masks. And then I got back to Boston. And I was delayed there for like 14 hours because they kept changing my flight. I felt like that might have to do with COVID lots of things were really hec- a lot of people were freaking out. And like worried about stuff. But no one was like wearing masks yet. And, taking- like there wasn't like hand sanitizer stations set up yet stuff like that. There was no social distancing. All the restaurants were still open. It was more like, "Oh, no, I don't want to get stuck in this other location. I just want to go home."
CP: Yeah, that makes sense. And it was kind of like, everybody was worried about it. But also, like nobody was willing to do anything about it.
CF: Yeah.
CP: Yeah, I remember that. Because out here- all of our travel got canceled. I was supposed to go to Washington, DC, myself with a school trip. And like, I had just gotten my nails done and my hair was done and everything. I was so excited to go on this trip. And then like, the day before our flight was supposed to leave- we had already checked into our flight virtually- at the airport through the airport app, and like, everything got canceled, [laugh] we were all like, devastated. We were so excited to go to this thing, and then we couldn't do it. And then within- by the end of the next week, campus had been shut down, anything that was in person have been, you know, closed for three weeks. And we didn't come back to campus at all the rest of the year.
CF: Yeah
CP: So yeah, it was definitely a really weird thing. And it just kind of was like a light switch went on. But before anything got canceled for the university, like people were hoarding toilet paper, and the shelves were already empty. It was insane. [laugh]
CF: Yeah, yeah, I remember that. So, my next experience is pretty interesting. My family was super worried about COVID and all that stuff, right? Because back- it was- this was like, right- as people were getting sent back, that's when, like- I think, before I even got back to America, Italy had closed its borders completely, they went to red zone and closed their borders. So, I got out like two days before they locked down. Then I got back and my parents were freaking out. So, they had me go to my cabin for three months.
CP: Wow.
CF: Yeah. Yeah, I was- I was in- I was in my cabin from March to April [both talking] sorry, March to May. Yeah. March- March, April, May. Yeah.
CP: Where's your cabin located?
CF: Pine city, Minnesota. I mean, it is a small- it's small but you know, it has- it's not like a cabin like log- hey, you know, it's- it's got heat. It's got internet, so I was fine. You know, I still had all my- all- a lot of my classes from Italy got transferred online. Kind of, I mean, I dropped two of them because they just weren't gonna work digitally. But, other than that, it was pretty strange being up there. After- after, like a couple of weeks I, it got warmer, so I'd walk like two miles to town with a gigantic military backpack and go to the Walmart and like, buy as much food as I could shove that thing and walk back. And again, this was still like- I had masks. I was wearing masks when I went to the Walmart. But like, this is still a big time where people weren't wearing masks, and one of the weirder guys I saw, you know, had a snorkel, that was his mask.
CP: Only in Minnesota. [laugh]
CF: Yeah, I guess, you know- I don't know, or more like only at Walmart.
CP: Right, right, exactly. So how was that like impacting your perspective of COVID- like being in Italy, and then getting back here right before they shut down and then like having to go isolate for three months in your family's cabin? Like, how did that change your perspective about all of that going on?
CF: Oh, I'm not gonna lie I- I suffer from like really bad anxiety. I am also obsessed with a lot of video games that have to do with survival stuff. I- I- I was like really worried, I thought like, this was actually become like a, extreme pandemic. And I was getting like, if I- if I read anything online, that the government is, like, making, like, camps to put people in who are infected, I am like- I started like making a map of the houses up there that I knew nobody was in because they were cabins. I knew I could get supplies from them if I had to. I was really paranoid constantly. But I was just sitting and playing video games, mainly to distract myself. But.
CP: And that's really, really interesting. Because in my other interview that I did, with a friend of mine, when he got his stimulus check, he went out and bought guns, because he was like, I mean, I'm not intending to shoot somebody. But if they want to come here and get stupid, I'm gonna protect my family. So, it was really, really- and it's really interesting how that's impacted everybody in a different way, but also like, kind of in the same way, we just react in a different way.
CF: Mm hmm. Yeah, no, I mean, I honestly, I was even considering that. I had one of my hand guns up there, but that was it. And I was considering having to go get more, because I was worried it was going to, like, turn it like this full scale looting. Like people would be fighting each other. I was afraid of that. I- like obviously, it didn't happen. But with like, the s- way- way, the way some articles were being phrased, it sounded like this was gonna get to like some sort of full scale, like, half the population was gonna be dead, and people would be fighting and there's gonna be like complete civil unrest, the government's no longer gonna help us. And this was even back with like, regular news sources, not even the fringe ones I read.
CP: Right. And this was like, right before the- the racial, like, injustice movement
CF: Yeah, right before that. Yeah, that- that- that didn't hit- that didn't hit till about June.
CP: Mm hmm.
CF: So, I also just gonna plug my laptop in, I'm still here.
CP: Oh, yeah, sure, no problem. [laugh] So I'll go ahead and ask the next question here.
CF: Yeah.
CP: So, I know you have some- I think you said you have family in Italy?
CF: Yeah.
CP: So, have you talked to any of them about like, COVID and the shutdowns and everything and how was their experience?
CF: They, you know, they all actually see- said it was like, not that bad. I haven't talked to them in a little bit. I could ask them again, soon- it's hard to get ahold of them. Like my uncle is still working, he- he's- he's a photographer for Vogue. And he had like, recently went to Russia. And so, I say recently, I mean, the past, like, month, so I guess they're still doing stuff. My other family all lives in a really small fishing village in Sicily. And I think they were fine. It was a really tiny village. So, I- I guess I never heard anything negative. I talked to my dad. I asked him like, how is everyone doing and stuff and he said, "Everyone seems to be doing okay." So, I don't think was too bad for them.
CP: That's good. I know there's been sections of Italy that have like having hospitals completely overflowing. And they-
CF: Oh yeah, no.
CP: -massive death counts. And so like, I was interested in- It's not like that everywhere. I wonder why that is? Because they're in such a small area that it's not impacting them?
CF: That, probably small area. Maybe also following lockdown rules. Europe is doing a little bit hardcore compared to we are, compared to how a lot of people in the United States think it is. And they think I think they're they think they're being oppressed, it's like, yeah, no, no you're not. When I- when I was back- I guess I can say back when I was in Italy and everything was taking off. Other than like I said, like the newspapers, it looked like they were out of a movie, outside the hospital, there was like tents already set up, like with the gigantic biohazard symbol on the side and to like- treat people like- triage centers, basically. And they were being you know, like- so i- so, in Italy, almost all churches are guarded- guarded by the Carabinieri, which is like the military police. And they have like, the armored vehicles, and like, body armor and machine guns and everything. These were now also been stationed outside the hospital, not just outside holy sites. So, they were being really like- kind of aggressive.
CP: Yeah, that's really interesting- and like, wow, like, I, if that happened here, because- you know, if we- if we had military police outside of our hospitals, people would lose their minds.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: That's really interesting. So, I know that you said, you were studying abroad, when everything kind of started getting shut down. And you get- you came back and everything. But since then, how has your education and your job been impacted by COVID?
CF: So, yeah, other than- well, are- sure. So, when I first came back, and I was in quarantine, I was still in school, through the study abroad, they tried their best to make classes online. I was in four classes at the time, I was in a history of film class, Italian cooking class, a jewelry making class, and- and just Italian 101. When I got back, I dropped out of Italian 101 because I just thought it would be really difficult to try to learn in another language online, especially in the style of class it was- because it was- it was supposed to be an immersion class where your teacher just tried to teach you in Italian, and you're just supposed to, like, hopefully figure it out, I guess. So, I dropped that one- I dropped jewelry making because obviously, it was not gonna be the same. It was really disappointing. Because, like, w- we- I was actually making stuff in the class. And they were like, "okay, well, now the classes like theory of jewelry making, read all these books." And it's like, yeah, I'm that I'm not doing that, I don't care, I want to have, I want to have the workshop where I get to make things. I stayed in Italian cooking, which was really disappointing because in the class, we had- one, our teacher was like, one of the head chefs at the Four Seasons in Florence, and then we had like, a, like, professional culinary kitchen was our classroom. It was amazing. The class got turned into, like, learning about the culture of where different foods come from, and why, and like, why certain parts of Italy, like grow what they grow, or why they're famous for like, different things. Which was really still a cool class, but obviously sucked because it wasn't a cooking class anymore. And then I stayed in history of film, because that was already that's just a basic class, you know- that- that was easy to transfer online.
CP: Yeah. So, like, so did you get to like experiment with any Italian cooking when you were, like, in your cabin?
CF: Yo, yeah, no, when I was there. Oh, no, I think my cabin- no, not really. No.
CP: That's kind of a bummer.
CF: It was too difficult to get the ingredients pretty much.
CP: Oh, I suppose. Yeah, that makes sense. And I suppose they have probably, like, different tools and things that a lot of the typical American kitchens might not have on hand.
CF: Oh, there's another big, I had none of the fancy tools or anything, so. Yeah,
CP: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, so what has been, like, the biggest challenge for you during this pandemic?
CF: I guess it's just like, paranoia. I mean, like- I don't- I'm not afraid like I have it right now, and I have absolutely no fear that I'm going to die. I don't even think I'm going to end up in the hospital. But I am worried about people like my grandfather. He's you know, 91, I don't want him to get it. So that that's been the biggest fear. My fears from back in like March of the civil unrest are pretty much gone. That has now moved on to fear of civil unrest because of the political situation. They just transferred. But not- not yeah, just risk of people, like elderly people I know getting sick, that's about it, you know. But I- you know, I didn't actually finish the previous question is- so after I was freed from my cabin imprisonment, I got my job back at the hardware store. This was again back in summer where like- I feel like now, people are a lot more differently afraid. Because when I was at the cabin, yes, all the toilet paper, hand sanitizer, bleach all that stuff was constantly gone from the Walmart, you know, and I got back to the ACE [hardware store] and we like rem- we like changed the section that we normally had for one product and just completely stocked it with like 90 cases of bleach, stockpiles of toilet paper, hand sanitizer, every- and now guess what, we have way too much of that and can't sell it. But we were selling all that stuff, and it was pretty fine. Honestly, work- work was really normal, other than like, we all had to wear masks constantly. We all had- we all were- had hand, we had like bottles and things and hand sanitizer all over the store to, like, use immediately. We were doing the social distancing. We have like the glass panel in front of the- the plexiglass panel in front of the register, so you don't have the contact. But it was pretty normal. I mean, the weirder things were, we got like strange customers coming in who were acting obnoxious, like- like one woman came in with a yardstick and was like literally holding it out in front of her, and like yelling at anyone who got closer than that to her. That was just really amusing. I mean, it wasn't really a problem, she bought stuff, I guess. We do enforce that customers have to wear masks when they come in- no, I shouldn't say that. Because back in about June, July, that wasn't a government order yet. So, we weren't doing that. We weren't enforcing that. Now we are, because now it's part of the government order. Yeah, we had another guy, we had another person come in, it's like, woman started yelling at a guy cuz he didn't have a mask on. And he started yelling back, that he was a microbiologist, and the "masks don't do anything." All this weird stuff. I mean. Yeah. And then, interestingly, because we mentioned- we mentioned earlier, like, the civil unrest in Minnesota due to the death of George Floyd and everything, everything shifted, it was immediately like the pandemic isn't happening anymore. Because we had way more people coming in to buy- they were coming in to buy- what do you call, plywood, and nails, and hammers, and drills, and nail guns- or cleaning supplies, because there was a big effort with a lot of people to clean up the city after- after- like the day after the night- the next morning. So, we had like a lot of people buying push brooms and spray paint remover, spray paint remover was one of the really big ones we sold a ton of, and fire extinguishers, tons of fire extinguishers. We were uncomfortable, like politics aside, we were uncomfortable, some people did come in and buy sledge hammers and axes. We were not allowed to say we couldn't sell them those. So that was strange. But again, like the I guess the reason I'm saying this, because it was like, yeah, COVID no longer is a problem right now, this is the thing. And that, that was pretty interesting to us. And that was also back when the mask law hadn't been enforced yet. So, lots of people weren't wearing masks at all. As the employees, we were required by our boss to do it. So, you know, we had to.
CP: Right, and like, I mean- and I remember because I have- I have a friend who lives in St. Paul. He is immunocompromised, so he has like, the top grade medical masks. And he went to the protests because he's like, "if I'm gonna die, getting sick, through a mask, it's gonna be standing up for other people's rights," [both talking-unclear] he really was passionate about it. And he actually got arrested and booked at least three times [both talking] And the last time that he was booked and released, they took his mask and they wouldn't give it back, and that's when he decided he couldn't risk it anymore.
CF: Well, that also sounds illegal. But you know, yeah.
CP: Yeah, exactly. So, he was like, it is now to the point where, like, my actual health is being actively jeopardized, and I can't do it anymore.
CF: Mm hmm. I know, that makes sense.
CP: Like that attitude really did shift during, you know, like- even in July, a lot, because everybody was now focused on this really huge, like, social justice issue. And you're kind of like- I mean, we're still gonna, like, some people are gonna wear masks and other people aren't. But that's not as big of a problem right now. This is a bigger deal. So yeah, I remember, like, kind of how that changed people's attitudes for at least a little while.
CF: Yeah, I mean, you know, the worst time that that could have happened- I mean, it shouldn't have happened at all. But the worst time that could have happened is now, it was like, you know, all my friends want me to go- have me go with them. And so, I- I am not going- I mean, I- you know, I support everything, but I am not going out in public with hundreds of people in giant crowds. I- I- you know, I'm just not gonna do that.
CP: Yeah, and for me, like, the biggest thing is, I have- I have a little one. Me too. And like, that was the biggest part of the reason that I didn't participate in a lot of stuff myself, even though like, I'm super passionate about it. I couldn't justify exposing myself knowing that I could bring it home to her and she's too little to like, fight it off. If she were to get it more seriously than others might, you know- I might survive. But that doesn't mean that she would, or you know, that my- that her- like, her dad. He works as a veterinary's assistant. So, he works in health care. So, if he exposes a customer who's elderly, because she's exposed to it or whatever, so that makes things a little more complicated.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: For sure. But yeah, like you said, like, just kind of always like- thinking about, like- focusing on who can this impact beyond myself.
CF: Mm hmm. That's what I worry about. So.
CP: Yeah, definitely. So, I think this is the last question here. What do you think, is the most important lesson of COVID-19 that should be passed on to future generations or to the government or to people right now?
CF: Hmm. That's actually a really difficult one. Because honestly, I have no idea- cuz I have no idea how this is going to play out. I mean, I would like- you know, everyone always says, "I wish things would go back to normal" and then other people, "but yeah, they're never going back to normal." And it's, I don't know, I guess it's- it is like next time, there is a virus that pops up in some place that isn't close to us, and people act like they don't care, start research a lot sooner. I guess. I mean, I know the biggest diff- difficulty was China doesn't like us. And when the virus first was, like, breaking out there, and there was no cases anywhere else, the U.S. probably couldn't get any form of sample to do research on. So, if the- I guess yeah, the biggest thing to learn is if there's ever another small outbreak somewhere, research should be started being done sooner, and the government should enforce things faster, and handle things better. And be less obnoxious about stuff. So.
CP: Base- maybe like base, what they're saying in like science and facts and not just on political opinion.
CF: Yeah.
CP: Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I like, I think that's one of the things and it's- like, all the way around. It's a lot of things have been based on this kind of, like fear of the government or whatever. When [both talking-unclear]
CF: Well, it's been such a bizarre year, though. Like, to think about like- you know, first we had that scare with Iran because we fired the missile on them. Then we had the whole like, Australia was on fire. Then we had anything to do with Trump at all, whether you like him or not, all that stuff. And then the virus and then poor handling, then riots, then an election, I mean, what can you do? You know.
CP: It's definitely like, it makes- and like, we are, we are both in a history class. And like looking at it through like, a historical lens, you can kind of see, like these themes that have played out over time. And we just sit here and go, "didn't we already do this lesson?"
CF: I find it the- one of the things, I still find like it was funny and ironic is that, you know, when was when was the last pandemic 100 years ago? Pretty much. Exactly.
CP: Yeah. It's really interesting how that kind of stuff plays out. And we can see, like, how people reacted to things back then, when they didn't have as much access to science and knowledge about viruses and bacteria as we do now.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: And yet, there's a lot of people that are still reacting the same way.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: And it just kind of makes you think about like, why is that? Is it like a social thing? Is it a cultural thing? Or is it because- is our education system failing? Like we don't, like it's kind of hard to like, pinpoint that. But there are so many different factors that it could be.
CF: How many people did you say died worldwide so far, by the way, um,
CP: So, the actual counts- at last count was 1,426,101 deaths, and that was right before I hopped on here with you.
CF: Oh, well, you know, we're good. Because 18-year- 1918 pandemic was 500 million. So
CP: That's yeah, yeah.
CF: Yeah.
CP: Yeah, that I mean, like, if you think about it on that scale, I mean, it's already been so
CF: Sorry, I didn't mess it up. Five 500 million were infected. 50 million died.
CP: 50 million died. So, I mean, if you think about how-
CF: We're at- we're at what, one? Or 2% right now?
CP: Yeah, we're at, yeah, 1 million deaths. And 60 million infected.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: So.
CF: And obviously healthcare was a lot worse back then, everything was dirty, you know?
CP: And, like, how quickly can that change? You know, I know a lot of people kind of compare those numbers like that looking for the death rate. But you really have to look at like the completed cases. Because those ones that are still active, like you, we don't know how that's gonna turn out. Now, hopefully, obviously, we're always hoping for the best but-
CF: I also know that- the main reason why I'm not scared is like, the risk of death for someone my age, and without underlying conditions, it's really low. I don't fear that I'm actually gonna like end up hospitalized. I just don't think it's really possible. I don't have you know, I don't have asthma. I don't have any form of underlying health condition. I don't have the weakened immune system. I know some people who are like- like, I can't remember the term for but it's- they're like, deficient. I mean, immune deficient or something.
CP: Immunocompromised.
CF: Yeah, immunocompromised. And I, I just don't think it's a big threat to me. It sucks. And I hate being sick. And it is on and off. Like I said, some days- like right now I kind of feel fine. But for all I know, later tonight, I will have like, severe stomach pain. So,
CP: Right. And then you know, that's one of those ones, like- just like the main strain and then multiple sub strains of coronavirus that cause COVID-19, they're all so- they all act so different. The only thing that's consistent is that we know that they're spread through aerosolized means, you know from mouth to air. So that's the only thing that's the same about all these little sub strains that are part of this group of COVID-19 viruses. And it's really- really, really unique because we have to treat each strain differently because they can all result in hospitalization. But depending upon which strain and how it breaks out, like it has to be treated differently. So, it's just like you said, it's just been an interesting year. [laugh]
CF: Yeah, it's bizarre. [snigger]
CP: Definitely. And I mean like, I don't think, I know I never thought that I would see a day like today, like what's going on and you're- you're about 10 years younger than I am. So, I'm sure it's even more of a shock to you.
CF: A mix, again I play a lot of video games. So, but, yeah, no, I- I do just want things to go back to normal. I don't know how well they're gonna go back to normal. This whole election was so bizarre. Mainly because honestly, everybody I know was like, you know, vote for the lesser of two evils. And it's like that, during a pandemic, that's not something I want to look at, like going forward. It's like, great. So, the only options are to people who are problematic, and we still have to figure out what's going on forward with this virus. Great.
CP: Right. And it's, I mean, it really kind of lends to like this whole year of absolute uncertainty and upheaval.
CF: Mm hmm.
CP: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time. This was actually really, really valuable. I think you have some really, really interesting perspectives that we can add to the archives and make it really cool. So, I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording-
CF: Sure yeah.
CP: And then we can chat a little more. Thank you!