Khalyle Hagood Oral History, 2021/03/26

Self description:
“I’m 30. I’ve been in Chicago since winter 2013, so I’m not a native. I’m from down state. I work a fulltime job. I’m in 5 bands. I live by myself. I live in... probably one of the less desirable neighbours, the neighbourhoods my grandma would probably be upset about, even though I love living here. I make money above the poverty line.” Performs in the following bands: Bussy Kween Power Trip, Gilt Drip, Cordoba, The Devonns, DXTR SPITS.

Some of the things we discussed included:
The importance of nuance
How far away China felt at the beginning of the pandemic
Anti-Chinese sentiments in the USA
Hypervigilance during the pandemic, reduced use of public transit, anxiety grocery shopping and being around others who aren’t masked
Living in a food desert
Finding new ways to integrate care and calmness into meetings with others, normalizing checking-ins, normalizing understanding that not everyone has the stamina to work on a given day, learning to be more vulnerable
Discerning which relationships are nurturing and which are not
Cultivating friendships
An absence of human touch and companionship, cohabitating with a cat, self-love
The isolation of coming out to oneself as bisexual/pansexual during the pandemic and losing the chance to really explore those desires
Deleting all dating apps
Birthday celebration during the pandemic
How working from home impedes work-life separation and learning a lot more about one’s neighbors
The cancellation of shows, including South by Southwest and touring in Europe
How good it felt to play shows and lacking motivation during the pandemic
The early days of the pandemic and excitement
How odd it feels to be in physical isolation with band members and using technology to stay connected
That when one’s labor requires them to abandon their own safety needs--such as essential workers--they cannot bring their whole selves there
Having only seen a doctor once in the past-decade pre-pandemic, first got insurance at 28 years-old
The benefits of therapy and losing access
Police violence: George Floyd and Breonna Taylor
Changing hygiene norms and eating habits
Having been raised in a middle class home by parents who had experienced poverty and boot-straps narratives
Being raised outside of Black culture and feeling removed from it
Having been called the n-word a child by white children and not understanding what that meant
First experience of “driving while Black”
Gaming culture and white masculinity
Unlearning classism and political awakening, practicing listening rather than talking
How sexism influences who has scientific authority and the music industry
Queer representation in the media and the absence of gay-men protagonists
NFTs and environmental destruction
Cancel culture, exile, and the possibility of rehabilitation
That overpolicing is an impediment to health
Dread and hope associated with the 2020 election

Other cultural references: BreadTube, NBA, Zombie movies, Contagion (2011), Nimona (2022), She-Ra and the Princess of Power, Kipo & the Age of Wonderbeasts, Steven Universe, Bridgerton, Owl House, Netflix, Nnamdi Ogbonnaya, Twitter, bell hooks, Greta Thunberg, J. K. Rowling, Shanna Swan’s Countdown (2021), punching Nazis, Six Days in Fallujah, The Last of Us, Soldier 76, Adventure Time

March 26, 2021

Kit Heintzman

Khalyle Hagood

Kit Heintzman

English Health & Wellness

English Home & Family Life

English Politics

English Biography

English Government Federal

anti-Asian racism

anxiety

art

artist

Biden

birthday

bisexual

Black

cancel culture

cartoons

classism

coming out

election2020

friendship

gaming

groceries

isolation

music

musician

pandemic pets

pansexual

performance arts

police

queer

racism

sexism

single

therapy

touch

Trump

tv

videogames

vulnerability

Black Voices

LGBTQ+

Mental Health

Performing Arts

12/23/2021

03/01/2022

03/21/2023

05/10/2023

03/26/2021

Kit Heintzman

Khalyle Hagood

Chicago

Illinois

United States of America

Video

English

03:02:37

Some of the things we discussed included:
The importance of nuance
How far away China felt at the beginning of the pandemic
Anti-Chinese sentiments in the USA
Hypervigilance during the pandemic, reduced use of public transit, anxiety grocery shopping and being around others who aren’t masked
Living in a food desert
Finding new ways to integrate care and calmness into meetings with others, normalizing checking-ins, normalizing understanding that not everyone has the stamina to work on a given day, learning to be more vulnerable
Discerning which relationships are nurturing and which are not
Cultivating friendships
An absence of human touch and companionship, cohabitating with a cat, self-love
The isolation of coming out to oneself as bisexual/pansexual during the pandemic and losing the chance to really explore those desires
Deleting all dating apps
Birthday celebration during the pandemic
How working from home impedes work-life separation and learning a lot more about one’s neighbors
The cancellation of shows, including South by Southwest and touring in Europe
How good it felt to play shows and lacking motivation during the pandemic
The early days of the pandemic and excitement
How odd it feels to be in physical isolation with band members and using technology to stay connected
That when one’s labor requires them to abandon their own safety needs--such as essential workers--they cannot bring their whole selves there
Having only seen a doctor once in the past-decade pre-pandemic, first got insurance at 28 years-old
The benefits of therapy and losing access
Police violence: George Floyd and Breonna Taylor
Changing hygiene norms and eating habits
Having been raised in a middle class home by parents who had experienced poverty and boot-straps narratives
Being raised outside of Black culture and feeling removed from it
Having been called the n-word a child by white children and not understanding what that meant
First experience of “driving while Black”
Gaming culture and white masculinity
Unlearning classism and political awakening, practicing listening rather than talking
How sexism influences who has scientific authority and the music industry
Queer representation in the media and the absence of gay-men protagonists
NFTs and environmental destruction
Cancel culture, exile, and the possibility of rehabilitation
That overpolicing is an impediment to health
Dread and hope associated with the 2020 election

Kit Heintzman 00:00
Hello.

Khalyle Hagood 00:02
Hello.

Kit Heintzman 00:03
Will you please start by telling me the date, the time, your full name and your location?

Khalyle Hagood 00:10
Cool date is March 26. Time is 5:31am. I am Khalyle Hagood and I am in Chicago in actually in the city, not Chicago.

Kit Heintzman 00:24
And do you consent to having this interview recorded, digitally uploaded and publicly released under a Creative Commons license, non commercial attribution sharealike?

Khalyle Hagood 00:34
Yeah, I consent to all that

Kit Heintzman 00:36
Thank you. And would you please start by telling me a little bit about yourself and anyone who might find themselves listening to this, what might you want them to know about you and the place that you're speaking from?

Khalyle Hagood 00:48
I'm about myself. I'm 30, hum, I am, what is relevant I'm 30. I've been in Chicago since like, winter 2013 So I'm not a native I'm from downstate. I work full time job. I'm in like, five bands. I I live by myself. I live in a probably one of the less desirable neighborhoods and the neighborhoods that like grandma would probably be upset about. But even though I I love living here I, I, make money above the poverty line. And I guess, I'm not sure what else is relevant, whatever it is, relevance keeps going up, will come up.

Kit Heintzman 01:47
Thank you. I'd like to start by asking what the word pandemic means to you?

Khalyle Hagood 01:54
Alright, pandemic, to me. It's kind of what I imagined. It's, I don't know, when I think of pandemic. You know, I really like zombie movies grew up and I watched like contagion growing up. So I always thought pandemic was like, was like glow, even global, just wherever the location was just like kind of, I wouldn't say chaos, but just like hyper vigilance where it's just like, being a lot more conscious of like, what you're doing. You know, it's interesting to think of like a zombie movie. And everyone's just like, check for bites blah, blah. And you're like, yeah, that's maybe ridiculous. And now I'm like, Alright, check my mask, you know, make sure I'm not too close to people. I really, I don't go outside a lot. I go outside, I would just say I probably went distant like twelve days not going outside. That ended a few days ago. Yesterday, actually. It's pandemic means like, like, it means more effort in life, weirdly enough. One thing I was mentioned, as I work from home, I got super lucky. I was kind of like in a newish job that I got like October 2019, which, you know, which I got. And I got it and it was in the office and whatnot. And then like, you know, things are getting weird. And interestingly enough, I mentioned I was in a band one of my bands was offered to play at South by Southwest last year. We were gonna play and that was like, really the week that kind of made the pandemic real was like, like, I guess one thing that the movie you see in the movies or you read in the books of like things shutting down but like nothing really felt real than like, I bought a plane ticket to do not only South by Southwest but also like a show before in a different city different state. And being like, Oh no, you're not like like we're postponing we you're not playing we're not doing it anymore. Hearing you know the NBA shutting down and things like that. So that happened like after my job so like pandemic is you know, getting sent home and being like alright, we'll be back in like a month all right back in like two months and like it kept going down the line. So like pandemic is like is like such a weirdly huge change because because I got lucky right having a work because like even people in my bands not all of them have type jobs work from home like I had a friend who never stopped showing up to his fast food job which you know, which is rough and thankfully he's not been sick and all this time. But um but like pandemic just meant like a huge adjustment admit like really like it's so weird. Pandemic meant more than I thought it would be like I remember like out After 9/11, right, I was a kid. So I was like eleven, I just turned eleven. And my, my parents are military. I think both parents were still in at this time, you know, and I'm at school and we see that. And like, that was probably a time where I could just feel like oh, man, like, things are changing, which, which is odd is 11 year old, but I guess it changes because my father, you know, like, I think he picked me up from school or I after I got home, I hung out with him. And we went to the gas station, there's a ton of people that I'm like, Dad, what's you know, what's going on with all the people here? And he’s like, we just got attacked by the Middle East. And of course, that's like, that is a whole complicated situation in the United States is bad, right? I don't want to say that. But like, but my father being in the military, like, it was like, oh, yeah, you know, we just got attacked. That's what that that's what those attacks you saw on television was, we gotta get gas, because if in the Middle East is gonna fill up, and we have to like, and like things are gonna change, right and seeing all the changes rollout. And like pandemic really felt kind of like that, again, 20 years later, as an adult, like, oh, man, like, I remember the toilet, the toilet paper thing, which is, in retrospect, kind of ridiculous. I got lucky. Like, right before, I bought a whole thing of toilet paper, and I put it, and I determined to treat my house better into like, clean my space better. And so I put it up. And when I put it up, like underneath my cabinet, I went, Oh, my God, I don't have any toilet paper. So like the week, I just remember specifically a week before I bought another huge roll. Got home was like, I need to put this up. And I opened it in my toilet paper from there was before so I'd have to deal with that. But it was wild seeing all the people deal with that and then seeing, like, just really viscerally feeling that wow, like, okay, the news reports that you see in the movies is really real. So like pandemic also meant, like, really thinking more about everything you touch. I mean, you know, like I saw the movie contagion. And that movie freaks you out. And you're just like, oh, how gross are things, but then like to really be like, No, this is real life. People are dying, people are losing their jobs and like, then they lose their jobs. And they can't pay for things like hooking housing crisis coming on. It's like, so pandemic was like that. But another thing that what pandemic meant for me. And that’s still the question right, I haven't drifted too far. Alright, cool. One thing like pandemic meant, for me, it was like, you know, I'm not gonna pretend like I'm super woke. But I have a bunch of like, friends that question the status quo, how things are going on to put it lightly. And it was just really revealing to be like, Wow, things are really bad. Like, I remember my mom whos a teacher now, like, both my parents at the military, my mom, a teacher, like having really, like, pit in my stomach question and things like, oh, yeah, so we're in the middle of a pandemic, but my school district isn't sure if we're gonna teach from home or if they're still just gonna come through, which was wild, because my parents, they also live in Illinois. So like, okay, Illinois is not the worst, but they're lived on a border town. Or they're like a border that lives like, right across the river from like, St. Louis. So all the people or their kids go work in Missouri, where the were, you know, things were more relaxed, and it's just like, Oh, my God, these people are going to go, they have to work because, you know, governments not supporting them. And then so they go to work, and then they bring whatever they bring from work home to their kids, or, or, you know, from across the river, and then those kids go see my mom, you know, my mom is, well, my mom told me when she went to the doctor, the doctor told her she was in a compromised position because she is black. She has, you know, we have history of health issues, and that she is considered obese by like, I guess her doctor, so it's just like, oh my god, like, so really oddly, like, I thought I was especially since this was like, because when it really started popping off in February, March last year, in like, it was just a ramping up because like, even even though I you know, took it seriously, it still was a ramp up in terms of like, how serious pandemic felt. So to be like, calling my mom around August and talking to her about, like, oh, yeah, I may have to, I'm probably gonna have to go back to work. And it's like, Oh, my goodness, it's wild. And I have a few teacher friends that have to do that. And even not just like, school teacher, like I have a friend whose job is to teach music to kids and, and he would go to their houses and it's just like, that's how he puts food on the table and pays the bills and it's like, how are you gonna do that? You know, they everybody I got fortunate like the people that I knew got to do visual stuff, but like, that's, I know that this is my circle of the people I knew like there's definitely people out there who didn't so like the pandemic was also very a looming element. For me it was like a, like a very visceral, like, this is what the world thinks about us. And I mean, like, kind of really in a general sense. Like, like, like, like, first of all, George Floyd that, you know, wow, that's a whole different can of worms. But it was like, it was just like the combination of like, that reaction and like the blowback from that, and like as it rolled on, and Breanna Taylor, but then even on a bigger level than just like rageous, he was just like, like, if there was this, like calling, my mom was like, damn, like, nobody gives a fuck, and no one's coming to help and like, which is weird to say, because we are the United States. We are the imperialistic nation on the face of the planet, this time and we go, You know what I mean, people don't like we could have had, like, No, we're gonna shove our assistance and democracy, democracy down your throat. So it's really weird to be like, we're inside the states. And we're not getting help. And so the pandemic was just like, crystallizing how that felt. It was just, it was the most like, it was really electrifying. Like how 9/11 was for young me and young me, like, you know, it was, I can only imagine how my parents felt having young kids then now.

Khalyle Hagood 11:20
How old are my parents, I'm not as old as they were back then. But like, and I don't have kids, but that's nothing. I don't have kids. I don't have any dependents. I live far I live like, my parents lived down state. And I have no close family in the city. Everyone's like, a minimum, six hour, six hour drive for me, you know, so. So it's pretty. So that was also weird to be like, how the pandemic meant for personal relationships. My parents already didn't really talk to my family, we're kind of a family was just like, we'll see it on the holidays. And like, so that wasn't really weird. But it was really weird going from I mean, all these bands, so I would like work 40 hours a week, and then like play music 20 hours a week, if not more, shows and practicing and things like that to go from one week, everything's there. And next week, and like, everything was calm was so weird. It meant like reevaluating. Like also in a zen level, just like who am I as a person in the world is very easy, especially in a city to like, just be on autopilot a lot. And to hit this pandemic and be like, to have so many things shut down and have to think about it. So like, I don't know, and also see how people's feelings change about it. Right? Because it's like, the world is never black and white. You know, but like, I feel like there's a lot of spaces where people like things to be black and white. Because it makes it easier to judge, you know, and like the conversation especially in a city of like should things reopen should things be closed was interesting, because you have people who are like, very adamant. I believe in science, I believe we need masks, I believe we need social distancing. But I work at a fast food joint and I need to go to work, right. And so they're like, we should open and, and like, but they don't bring all of that, that I say baggage. I don't mean in a bad way. I just mean like literally, like, all their personhood doesn't come out. Every time when someone just says I want us to stay open. It's just like, I've evaluated my needs internally. And like, no one's helping me. So I need things to be open. So I can go to my job. And this is like, people are gonna get sick. And it's like, yeah, but I gotta be hopeless. It's just and that was, man, it's just like even talking now is is bringing me back to just like, like, because I even though I know the world isn't black and white. I've been fortunate enough, like, because I'm from middle class home. So ironically, you know, despite all the advantages that I have, and I still do have advantages that I have today privileges right now, like, like I forgot where I was going with this, but it's just like, even it's just weird how it touched people, right? Because again, I definitely because even after my mom's scare about maybe she'll have to go to work. Now. My family's my immediate family is good. My mom works at home as a teacher my dad works at home from his I'm not sure how to describe his job, but he gets work at home. He works in office and they're just like, Alright, go home. My brother out in fucking Hollywood was also effect because you remember how all like all the movies like pretty much a lot of releases like movies, TV shows, video games, just like a lot of things that are made by a lot of people interacting, got like, slowed down. My brother's out there. He's in show business and he had to I'm thinking Well, thankfully, he's gonna show business but he was definitely like separated from All right, as I'm just like, hey, man, you know, like, I know you're probably fine, because like, he works in a building with like, two or three people in it at once. And his work is very home. But it's also like, alright, so your work that you do every day is fine. But the things that gets you work like these productions, like, are they still there? How are you doing? And they've kind of messed him up to, you know, well, okay, that's not sure they haven't messed him up is more like, things have actually been harder for him because of the rearranging time schedule. And everyone's fighting it where it's like, how do I keep it anonymous, like, because of pods and things like you have to have, you have to like, schedule around people being safe and being in pods. So it's like, all right, this thing that involves a lot of people that we need, they're going to be open for this small little bit of time. And then everyone descends is like, alright, we need all of that time. And like, You got to fight for it and just pushes things back in a weird way that's like hard to describe if you're not intimately familiar with my brother does, but like, it's just so weird. Just the pandemic really just like brought things to a halt, and really made people like push their noses into the dirt and be like, What are you doing in a weird way, no matter what you're doing, what are you doing, not in a challenging way, just like into like a, like, really shaken, Wake up. Because in for me, being in all those bands, I'm working full time was definitely a way for me to like, not really engage, oddly, not really engaged or live here I am playing all these shows, and all these all these people. I'm not famous, but like playing these shows, as a way to be disengaged. And now it's like, No, you must engage, you must think about things you must like. Also, having a lot of free time, it was very interesting to read the news. You know, voting was interesting. When the elections just, strange times, but I hope that answers that.

Kit Heintzman 17:05
I’d be curious, to the extent to which you're comfortable answering, what are some of the ways that you've engaged with health and healthcare infrastructure, prior to the pandemic?

Khalyle Hagood 17:18
Prior to the pandemic. I've been super lucky. There's things in my family that run in the family, but like me, and my brother, I've really just not manifested any of like, the generational shit that's been going on, for the most part. So like, before the pandemic, I hadn't seen a doctor. In like, almost a decade, right? Because, like, very rare, like, I saw a doctor in 2019, or something. And I was like, Is this something that a doctor is like, actually, it's nothing, you know, glad you came in. Because, like, you haven't seen a doctor, but it wasn't anything. So it was like, really weird that like to not have a need for it, I would say that, like, I, and that's kind of like bodily need, right? So I did, I was not used to I'm just not used to like being in waiting rooms and having to do stuff, I did in like the summer 2019. When I did get all that set up, that was like the first time as an adult at like 29 years to 28 years old. Man, it's so weird, you know, the pandemic, you're still some years, and it's still a year. And it's weird to just be like 28 years old, like the first time where I was like, I have to engage with the health system to get my body checked off. So I think something might be wrong. And like that was it was like to get insurance I got I got so lucky that I was just had a job because that was really like, That summer, that January, I got fired from a job. And then I spent like, from January to October not having a real job. So when I went in, like around September to go get something checked. That was because I got lucky. I got on a specific tip service that still gave health insurance which was I don't know enough to know that if it's like truly a good thing, but it's someone who is like, oh, for the first time, my life maybe it's good, I should have health insurance. It was really nice to not have a full time job, not even technically part of time, but still have health insurance. And I was able to be like, oh just talk to those people, you know, and not to deal with it. And and that's then also started therapy. I will say that before before actually we at the start of No, I think it was before this so around that time I also decided to start going to therapy because I found like a student who would do it, um, just to talk about things in my life. And I don't know, it seemed like as I was expected, it was nerve racking but just like not in a really particularly interesting way I would say that my time with medicine interacting with the health system was I could tell only see some of the problems with it like, in very small ways. But also because like, because now that thing that I went to like. So this is kind of I know he said before the pandemic, but even though this problem has kind of manifested since the pandemic, since it started before the pandemic, that thing that it did in like September 2019, when I went to the doctor, and I had insurance and they were like, I was like how much it's gonna cost and then they're like, well, it's probably not going to cost that much. Okay, I have a job. So okay, and then they were like, it's gonna be $200. I'm like, I don't have a day job. But like, $200 ain't bad. And like, I kind of never set up my insurance, I must have not. So like the $200 dollars, like, never went away, and it slowly ballooned. And I think I got a bill for, like, almost $2,000 now, and I don't understand why. So now I'm gonna have to spend like, I just been ignoring it. But the, I've been ignoring it for like, personal reasons. And now I'm finally in a space like, Okay, I'm going to engage with this bill that has ballooned by like, like fucking 100, like a factor of 10. And I'm gonna go and see what's up with it. And it's just like, so I don’t know. So now, I know, you're somewhat before, but now I'm gonna have to find out what health insurance is like, during the pandemic. But yeah, so before, not really a lot of engagement, just kind of like, smooth sailing. And like, I definitely went to the doctor a few times as a kid, and I wasn't really engaged with because I was a child, and I would watch my mom, you know, handle that stuff. And like, the whole time, I'm like, Okay, this kind of reminds me of about 15-20 years ago. All right, I kind of see it. So I don't know, I've been like I said, I just been lucky and not have to had to deal with, like, I couldn't imagine having a sickness that wasn't COVID During COVID, or, you know, or even just having a sickness and having to talk to get the runaround, because it was a runaround, of, you know, Chicago has all these hospitals, but like, it was just weird to go into my insurance and find out who takes my insurance, and then go to them. And even though they take my insurance, I guess, because I never explicitly said use my insurance, and now I'm in this fucking really long building. Sorry for swearing. But yeah, that would be my answer.

Kit Heintzman 22:18
You have no need to apologize for swearing or anything else. Pre pandemic, would you talk a little bit about what your day to day was like?

Khalyle Hagood 22:29
So pre pandemic day to day. I was really like, in a flow. And that flow is one reason what led me to go to therapy, but I was at a flow like you like, like, um,

Khalyle Hagood 22:44
I will commute to work. Every day, I will usually bike unless the weather was awful. And bike home, which was like my exercise because I just, I haven't I don't do a lot of exercise. Otherwise, I don't have I haven't had a gym membership. Since I, you know, dropped out of college, bike to work, you know, work, work an 8:30 to five get off. And then I would have to usually go the music thing. So like, I would go bike home, drop off my work bag, pick up my pick up my instrument, and then I would ride the bus to go because like I'm already biking and it says I want to be I don't mean to gross from my bandmates, but like didn't go do bands, or sometimes like sometimes I would have shows right afterwards. So I would have I had to ride the train to work and I'd have like, my bass and my amp on like a dolly in like a wheel that into work and just sit at my cubicle with my instrument next to me I'll all day and then immediately leave and go to the venue. My day to day was like my job. My jobs have as had been very just office jobs same thing day in and day out. You know, getting un packed trains was a thing. I didn't used to always have to go through downtown but my news job made me and so like, I finally like sometimes had to deal with, oh, this train is too full for me to get on. Like wait. So that was interesting pre pandemic. Now since pandemic I've been on the train like three times. And every time it's been like 10 people or less to train, even during like rush hour while I was going into civic during rush hour of pre pandemic. I didn't have a lot of time to myself, that'd be something that changed a lot. Like because I was always going and even when I was home, there's usually other things I had to do because being in five bands is like okay, I can record for this band, or I can write for this band. Or if I'm not doing bands, I wouldn't be like okay, I could do some research about some music tech that I'll be using. And of course I still would play video games in my downtime too. Right? It was just very cuz I was just used I was used to like, like, there would definitely just be weeks where like every day during the week, during the weekday, I will be doing something and then on weekends I had rest but like we would have show so like, I would sleep in till like, between 10 and noon, take a shower, eat and then be like, Alright, now it's time to pack to be at this venue, you know? Because I would, you know, I would go very slow and enjoy my weekend, but it would eat up my time. Um you know, I would definitely go. Also going out to bars playing a musician like you get to go to bars often when if I'm not playing I'm usually going to watch friends play in their bands, or just bands, I don't know. So that'd be my day to day, I would pretty much pretty much I would say in a seven, five day work week for those days, I'm probably going to do something music on the weekends, I would say like, probably every weekend or every other weekend, I would go play a show and I would definitely look for time to just go and see shows myself. What else is about day to day? Um, yeah, that's it. And also that out in like riding my bike, I rode my bike, a lot of places like, I wouldn't ride it to practice or shows but like, I would ride it to my, to the bars, you know, I'd be in like, fucking December as long as there wasn't like awful snow on the ground, you know, just ride out to the bar, or party or to a friend's place or something like that. So. So yeah, I would say compared to that I just had a lot more time after.

Kit Heintzman 26:21
You already touched on some of this. So feel free to say I thought all I have to say, but I'm just wondering, what are some of the ways that you've had to adapt that day to day living?

Khalyle Hagood 26:33
Um, working from home started off really sweet. I used to wake up, like at seven immeidately hop in the shower, you know, cook some breakfast and I wouldnt eat it, I would throw it in my bag and bike to work and eat it at work. While I started my daily tasks. And I actually did like eating at work. Oddly enough, my kitchen table is just filled with stuff I don't really eat at my kitchen table. And then like, how, what was the question, like how did I had to adjust. Alright, so like, I went from like waking up at seven and biking to work to do my job to waking up at 8:25 to log on by 8:30 do my job. And like, that was really like it started off really chill. And like, slowly over time working at home has been like a real slog because you just have to just because I'm just in this space so much and it's very, it's really affected me in a way that I was not planning on like, don't, don't get me wrong, I definitely do not want to go back to working at the office like like, working at the office, I'm probably a better worker at the office being in that confined space. But ideally, post COVID I would have the option to work at the office. And by that time, I will have bought a laptop and I'll go work in a coffee shop. Like that's what I would really like to do. Like I don't want to be in the office. But I probably don't want to be in my house every day working from home. I had to get used to like just like losing I I definitely had stress issues and like was I was all there you know, on my sadboy hours and was like thinking me I was depressed before all this happened. And then like in like, I can't remember what the context was. One thing was like, hey, so if you spend all the time at home, and you have trouble sleeping at night, you should keep like you should really isolate the spaces of your life like don't work in your bedroom. And we're not in my bedroom. I'm sitting at my computer desk to work but it's like I said it's computer desk to watch Netflix to play games to write music to do like my taxes to do my bank account to like it's just everything now is in this chair in this chair pretty much like 8:30am to like 2am mode. Like there was a time I was doing now I try to get to bed by midnight but I was like till 2am I like all day long. And it's just so that was just so weird. That it was like really messing with me it was like making it hard to it's like it's been hard to do my job because it's just like things are blending into one another so like getting used so getting used to it has been like it's been kind of the opposite. Like I was immediately like dived in headlong and like yeah, we're gonna home is dope and like, you know, I love it. It was also really cool because I was getting had a different kind of slacking at my job at the office and then being at home I had like a whole burst of like, as a new environment. I like it and and then now it's been like a decline like all the things that like I thought would be hard in the beginning and are hard now. I have a cat my cat loves loves that. I'm home all the time. She is not cuddly. She does not like being in being up close like you know what I mean? Like she's very much like leave me alone like, but being home my cat is like she didn't freak out. You know she I've seen videos of cats like screaming which would be prompt me because at the start a pandemic, a lot of my job has been on the phone. But like, she just, she's on my couch sleeping next to my guitar and he's like, Okay, hi, you know, so I didn't have to get used to that. But also I had to get used to just like, more trash. Because like, I was I did not use a lot of trash in my house. Right? I was out at my job or out at practice. And, and, and then now like, just I have to take the trash out a lot more. It's just really a weird thing. Interestingly enough, like, I didn't really eat out a lot, but then now that it's home, it's like, I've had fast food probably five times. And like, one time was like someone at my job. GrubHub bring me some fast fast food is like a thank you. Or like, I would go to like an outs like my friend has, has like a bonfire in her backyard. So like, go outside. And like someone, like bring some separate food for us. You know? And like, for my birthday, someone bought me a burrito because I hadn't had a burrito is like what was it like five months? Like, by the time my birthday because I like what am I? Why am I gonna go get food, like, go get food in the pantry. I've been cooking at home. I definitely cooked home, like five nights a week. But I want to cook at home like seven nights a week for sure. Which wasn't a big deal. Oddly enough, just because you cook at home all the time doesn't mean you get better at cooking if you just get the same thing over and over again. So I'm just garbage for them as last time, I had to get used to like how to get used to my neighbors, right? When I first moved into my place for pre pandemic about like, the year like 2019 It was this place like I lived underneath this old couple and I would play a lot of music and they liked it is oh, it was like, I got lucky, right? I played really loud rock music. And they're like in one day, the old couples was like, is that you playing bass? I'm like, I don't know. That's me playing bass. It's like well, it's you. It sounds good. I was like, oh, that's me playing bass. But now like, like, they moved out. And I think their son moved in with like his girlfriend and a child and went from like it started off like a year ago was really dope. Because even I was home all day, this old couple was just super quiet all the time. And then like around September, it swaps their kids and our kids are just awful. Like, like they stomp a lot their child stomps a lot. Thankfully, the child cries very softly. And it's not a big deal. It cries a lot, very softly. It doesn't bother me. But the child stops. And that's what bothers me. And it's just so weird. And it's like, and they also act like that they don't live. They don't live above somebody, right? Like they must have grown up on the bottom floor on a house or something. And it's so weird. Also, random aside, I always I grew up in houses mostly. So like, this is really literally the first time in my life. I've been like, oh, a child lives in an apartment in a building. Even after living in Chicago for seven years, and it's just so weird to think about like is Chicago has really been like an adult cities, I moved there as an adult and all my friends are adults, and none of them have kids and all the buildings I lived in and never had kids in them. So this is weird. I had to get used to just like, like this year is the first year I really had to been like I'm living in a city with other people. And like, I have to just get used to that. Like before, I've been so lucky. My I've only lived in two spots. My first spot like my landlord didn't give a shit about how we play music and our opposite neighbors didn't give a shit how loud we played music. And this is the first time we're like I'm in a building where people care about it. And now that I'm home all the time, you know, especially when just trying to make phone calls. And also the couple upstairs, they are an awful couple. And I'm wondering if COVID is making it worse. And I hear them fucking screaming and fighting a lot. And it's just like, like, I have to get used to just like working in a different environment does that work, everything's all chill and all quiet. And at home, it's there. And then also had to get used to like just not going anywhere. And just being home alone. So yeah.

Kit Heintzman 34:29
I'd be interested in hearing a bit about what you remember about having first heard about COVID-19. So like, what was it like in the beginning?

Khalyle Hagood 34:40
So in the beginning, I'm definitely like I’m not gonna lie. Everyone is doesn't have the most flattering was in the beginning was definitely like, oh, that's something in China. Like, you know, I would definitely not associated with our infamous Cheeto president who was calling it the China virus, not like that, but just more like a damn China has a lot of people that's that's kind of scary. I wonder what that is. And then it's like, oh, it's in like, I think it was like an Oregon or something if that makes sense. They're on the, on the west coast. You know, then I think there was something in Chicago was like, Okay, that makes sense. They're gonna quarantine but O'Hare International Airport, when it was definitely like a like a, it was definitely like, wow, this it was exciting at first because it didn't seem that deadly. And like, it seems so removed from us, it was definitely like that I think China was under reporting their numbers, and I don't have a judgment one way or the other. Like, I don't have a is that good? Is that bad? I just think for a fact they were in and I also alluded to like, okay, maybe it's not so bad. You know, and then like, over time, like, be like, No, it's in all these other countries now because, you know, China's like an economic Mecca. Like, all these places, and it's like, no, people die from it. And like, I could definitely feel the slowing creeping like, it was definitely like, excited, anxious at first because it's like, because, you know, when you're my life wasn't like, super exciting. It was like, Ah, it's like a movie. And then it's like, it's like a movie. It's like, the horrible movies where people get sick and die, and bad things happen. And I could just slowly feel it. The sense of like, like, if you ever seen a movie, and I do that violent thing, where it's like, it's like one of those things, it was like, a it was like a month long of that. And like, two months of like, February, March last year, just like, everything shutting down, it was very much felt like, like a like, oh, shit, like, grip the table. And like, then like, There's definitely times I'm just at work. I'm just like, I'm at work in Chicago O’Hare, like, what have my coworkers has been doing? Like, you know, like, I'm not like, you know, find the witch, but it's still just like, we're in an international city in a sense, like, man, like, I don't know, is this probably it felt like how describe it felt like, it definitely felt like electricity, like just fucking like rippling through the like it hit, like hit the states and just rippled through. And it was like, having to call my folks back when I used to call them and be like, hey, what's, like what's going on in your neck of the woods, and then my dad works with like, kind of big companies. And I'm like, Hey, Dad, what's a brewing with like with you? I don't ever need to figure things that he said. Because I think by the time like, it became a thing for him. Like, it became a thing for everyone. So I never really followed up. But I just it was interesting, like, call my dad and be like, Dad, I know, you do international deals, like what's it feeling like for you, you know, and also calling my brother. Like, the onset of the pandemic really felt like, it also felt hard from a musician point. I didn't really talk about this, but it was like, because we had one of my bands was talking about touring in Europe, another one of my bands just finished an album was trying to plan a tour and like, shortly, like a few months after South by Southwest, you know, so like, and I was in charge of one of the stops and was weird, like talking to this dude. Like, hey, maybe we're going to push back our show. Now, it's like, no, we're not going to have a show, you know, and then like seeing all the shows drop, because I mean, I'm not when I say like, I'm like, my bands that are like, a lot of them are D R Y. One of them is like famous in Europe. So it's very weird. And that's why like, nobody in the United States cares about that particular band. But for some reason people in Europe care. So like labels like hey, we can turn Europe and like that disappeared. And like and like the bay, like busted clean the band that you got us through, like we played a show, like the I think like the a couple of weeks before things shut down. And it was like, it was so weird, because it was still a joke back then. So like, we were like, advertise the show is like, hey, come to the show and catch COVID with your friends. And like I know, it's just such awful taste. We didn't know we were playing with like a band that was like from from like, Kansas City or something. So they were out here, like in the middle of a tour. And like, you know, we say Hey, see you later we follow them and then seeing them on Facebook being like, yeah, we gotta cancel our tour. We're going home and it's like, Oh, holy shit. Oh, man. Like, it was like, oh, Jesus is so bad. Like, like, Yeah, I man, it was just it was just very weird to feel it all go down and slow down. So like the band, like the band that was gonna release the album we had to do it online and it was definitely not the same. A few bands that I was, that were releasing albums last year in artist, like rappers that drop things online for various amounts and like they had to change Nandi. I don't know if you know him. He is also he's probably the most famous person that that like I've been in the same room with in my scene because like he's in the few things and I was definitely at a show and someone recommended I probably talked to him and I was like, I'm too shy. And now he's kind of blown up. But like, you know, he dropped, he dropped like three albums last summer, probably for this thing. And I didn't mention this before, some kind of a tangent, but like, kill my music drive. absolutely killed it. Like there's definitely people who stayed home and like, Yes, I'm gonna lock down and do shit. And I started off that way for sure. And like, really just killed the vibe, or like a lot of my bands. Now everyone, some people in my bands that were like, took it as like, holy shit. I'm gonna work so hard, I don't have to go and like perform every week. We're just write, write, write and I was just kind of like, I don't feel it anymore. Guys. I'm just sad all the time. And like, I don't want to pick up my instruments and like, not motivated at all. Because definitely, like, I definitely lived off of my scene a lot. And like, I oddly, I definitely feel like people. My self esteem is not great. And so I was like, being all these bands, definitely, I didn't have to worry about it. Because it was just like, I would just play a show once a week, or every two weeks, and then boom, there's like an injection of like, feel better juice, and then that just went away. And it was like, Holy shit, I have to sit here with my thoughts and just have to deal with them. So I guess to get back to like, the slowly settling in of how it felt and crushing things. I really just felt like I could just feel also just in general, just like life slowing down. And again, having to make us think about we're doing like I mentioned before, so yeah.

Kit Heintzman 41:58
How have some of those responses changed over time?

Khalyle Hagood 42:03
Responses as in

Kit Heintzman 42:06
Responses to the pandemic, and so you had talked about sort of the initial response to

Khalyle Hagood 42:11
Oh, yeah,

Kit Heintzman 42:11
Not feeling the music, like, has that changed those kinds of

Khalyle Hagood 42:17
Cool, so like, the initial response of like, the sense of dread finally has been alleviated. I'm not gonna lie, the election with the way it did, went was kind of like, Oh, my God, thank God, like, like, like, you know, I mean, I still, I still think the administration sucks, but it is definitely less bad than it was like, oh man with Cheeto man, Mr. Cheeto man, and Trump is just, it's definitely less bad, right? So that's nice, but who knows the damage that that man cause. So gonna go on, but like, it's been less bad, since like, November ish, in some ways, and worse than others. So like, like, let's see ways that things have changed the dread of just like, holy sure things shutting down, this kind of cemented in it now. It's now it's the dread of things opening back up too early. That's kind of that flipped. And that's interesting. Um, I definitely still feel like shit about music. Because, I mean, I, man 10, gently to being in COVID. Like, I've been through two therapists. Now the first guy graduated, and it was like, okay, that's fine. And then I realized the insurance that I had, wasn't like, didn't make therapy that affordable. So I finally changed it in the new year. And then I got someone new. And then they were like, Yeah, I'm having some, I need to do some self care. Therapy is like, being a therapist is hard. I'm quitting. And I was like, Oh, my God. Why? Like, like, why, how are you going to? I'm not upset about it. It's definitely funny. Like, it is a question, buddy. That back to back to therapist just like I'm done. And it's like, Okay. What else is different the music doesn't feel different. If definitely, I will say one of my bands got super good with it. Um, I am kind of like the least experienced musician and most of my bands, except for one where I was on with someone who has like, never been in a band before. She's like, my age has ever been in a band. She's been the shows and she knows the scene, but she's just like, never been in a band. She could sing but like, doesn't know anything about music doesn't know anything about music tech and whatnot. And like, it's definitely started off as like, an aggravating thing before the pandemic because it was just like, having to it was just, there's definitely a growing pain period where it's just like, Okay, you were part of a thing. That's not your job, but you have to kind of treat it like your job. Right. And that's just some background. So since the pandemic because that one band is like a electronic music band, um, compared to all my other bands, which are definitely much more alive, because I'm like an electronic band. which is the one that I'm going to talk about with just only two, only two people in it compared to a punk band, a jazz rock band, a rap rock band in like a Motown band. And all those bands are very much in person practicing the same room and it's live. And so those bands really fell off. But this electronic band kept persisting in that even though I didn't feel the music. I kept meeting with this, because I was also getting to know this person, this is someone who I've been aware of, for a long time, they literally dated my best friend for like, 10 years when they broke up. But I never knew them. But now that we're, I'm in a band or with this person, and as COVID is kinda like, and we were doing like, and I was putting all these hours into, like, getting them up to speed about what doing music is. And then COVID happened, like, and that's all to lead him to say that after COVID, our weekly digital music sessions became very much like a what was advertised you should do in case stay in contact with friends, like we definitely started off like workbook work the net, like, we set aside two hours and was like, two to three hours of work. And then now like, it's just standard for the first hour, we're just talking, we're just talking. How was your week? How are you feeling? How was your day, you know, just like, you don't even like it, we just do not bring up music like at all. And it's not like a rule, it was just been organic, or it's just like, gotten to know each other so well. And like, so for one thing changed from pre cover the post COVID is like, I've got a lot of good experience of just like cultivating friendships, kind of not just friendships when he was still in a band context. And a lot of my friendships in real life are through music. But like, you know, it was still definitely like, normally, I would be like, Hey, how's it going? How's it going? How's your band going? Like, when's your next gig? And and now I've had a lot of experience of just like, how are you doing? The thing you talked about last week? Like, how's that working out for you like, like, it definitely, like she was so odd. I noticed for so long, and they weren't really much to me. And they just stepped up to be a really great friend for me for each other for this time. And it also really taught me about be treating ourselves better. During the pandemic, there was definitely days where one of us would show up and be like, Hey, I'm not feeling it today. And we would talk like our normal intro talk thing and be like, Alright, cool. Well, I'll see you next time, right? And stuff like that. I'm definitely like a get shit, despite, despite not having done things. In COVID, precovid, I was very much a get shit done person, like, always be productive. Because, you know, capitalism is with me, and to just always having to produce value, even even my own goals. It's like, you're not doing your own goals, and no one's doing your own goals and your dreams. And so like, being friends with her in COVID, where you have to slow down and really let me like, reevaluate them. And like, that's been very valuable work, I think already mentioned how like, it started off great. And then since it's changed, it's kind of a nightmare. And I'm probably gonna end up burning a lot of my vacation to my bosses, and I'm probably gonna burn all my vacation days, and then take the unpaid leave, because it's just like, I need a break. Like, I have been in this box. For a year now. I need a break. I need a break longer than a few days here and there. What else has changed? Um, I’m gonna be real hygiene has kind of gone down. I see people like once every two weeks sometimes, like, you know, if I've already sad, and I don't have I have no reason to leave my apartment. You know, I just bought like, I remember the first time I went grocery shopping, I bought food. And this was kind of a mistake, like, because, you know, it takes two weeks of incubation. And I bought like six weeks worth of food. So I was like, I wasn't inside for 16 weeks straight, but it was a long time. And it drove me nuts. Like, like it like, and that was not good for our mental health. Yeah, I would say things have changed is just like, like personal hygiene has gone way down. I don't I don't talk to anybody. I don't like my building. Like, you know, there's no opening door Hey, neighbor, before COVID. So now posts, we definitely don't do that now. And like so I don't do that. Other things that have changed the band stuff. Some stuff to change stayed the same. Like some of my bands had some drama right before COVID. And then like, because we don't meet for COVID We've kind of swept it under the rug. It's still definitely there. But it's just like, we don't see each other. So the reasons for that drama, don't get brought up. So it's like that's kind of not changed. And like, it's really weird because we've done things since then. And like and we've been able to do those things. because we haven't had to be in are, we like the things that the cause the problem hasn't had to be addressed Because we don't see each other in person. We're not playing shows, oh, what else is changed? Um this is a fun one. Um, I would say in 2019 was I was finally like, you know what, I'm probably bisexual. And then like, nothing really happened from that. It was just a slow ramp up, because I'm figuring things out and then COVID app, and it was just like, wow, like, I'm just completely ice because my scene is a very inclusive scene. So I was kind of in I'm already shy. So like, I'm shy, but I'm going to inclusive seating. So I'm slowly getting a feel for like, what my identity is, and it was like, all that's gone is like, Oh, I'm spin me in my head. And, and, and I went from wandering to like, I don't even want to think about it. Like, I just don't even want to consider that. Finding out. That part of me is on pause. Until after because, like, like, what does it matter? Like, I've been on Tinder, you know, on a match with some dudes, but it's just like, I can't go on a date with you. So what am I doing here? I deleted all my dating like, I would I would definitely I deleted all my dating apps probably in March last year. And I just reinstalled them in the new years because I'm like, Okay, maybe we'll get somewhere some point. And I was like, I can he can look, I can just talk online, but like I definitely just deleted them. And I don't know. So yeah, I would probably say that I just changed? I mean, a lot more pizza, a lot more oven pizza. Like, I used to, like probably cook my food a lot and like eat a bunch of chicken. But nowadays, I'm just like, fuck, like, they're just little discs. They fit in my bookbag I'm already walking past the store, got my mask on just shoved them in the book bag, throw them in the freezer. And like any day, I'm just like, anything. I'm just like, not emotionally there. 15 minutes later, I have a pizza. And that needs to go back to what it was pre COVID. But that is definitely this change. I eat a lot more pizza, oven pizza.

Kit Heintzman 52:09
Again, you already touched on some of the things related to the next question. So you had mentioned the election, Breanna Taylor and George Floyd, 2020 was a really big year. And 2021 is also feeling like a big year. And so I'm wondering if you would say a bit more about some of the biggest issues on your mind over this period of time.

Khalyle Hagood 52:32
So some background being middle class. And being both parents in the military, and moving around, I didnt move around a lot, and move around probably through one to three times, but still, like, at key moments in my life. And because of where I grew up, I've kind of been not like it's I come from a weird place. Like I definitely came from a more conservative mindset I would never like I was never raised to vote R. But I come from parents who like lived in absolute poverty. Right? You know, my dad was a country boy, and he had an out house. So he was, so he was like a teenager. And he lived in and lived in a house that like his father built. And my mom lived in the ghetto, you know, live sat beneath the windows, because people would shoot into the building that kind of life. Right? But then they built this whole life for them. And they and me and my brother have had to want for nothing. So like I have this very I had, especially back when I was a shithead in college, this whole like colorblindness, anyone can pull them up to the bootstraps if they try and that kind of idea, right. And then I moved to Chicago, join some woke bands, and I woke scene and I'm just like, actually, Khalyle shut the fuck up. You don't know what you're talking about. Like that. A lot of that's a lie in this system is this like, you know, gunning for you. And I've been like dancing around that, like I definitely like, I'm definitely in a few left bands and like, and it's like, alright, you know, I was dumb before and I didn't know shit. And now I know better. And now I know that the reason why my parents were able to pull themselves by the bootstraps, because they joined the military industrial complex. And, unfortunately, that's how they got out of poverty. But you know what I mean? Like, now I see things like that. So all that's come to say, like, the George Floyd thing, like last year. It was very, it was very much kind of like a challenge to me to be like. And I'm still dealing with this, but it's very much like a being a bystander, being a bystander. And since I feel like a bystander a lot, or it's just like, I spent a long time I grew up outside of black culture. Even though you know, racism, still found a way to fine find me of course, but I grew up outside of black culture. So I feel kind of like an outsider. At times, and like I do a lot more listening now than I do talking and speaking, right? I definitely sit around, and I look around and then I'm like, Okay, what's going on? You know, so this year, the last two years for me had been a lot of listening. Right? I def, I didn't go in March. March is my contribution was like financial and like donations, you know, which I do feel a little guilty about, but I don't know, that's between me and the afterlife, I guess. I don't know. But, uh, so in terms of like, how it felt, or like, what it was, it was definitely like, I kind of liked it, because so this is gonna sound weird. Being a gamer. Gaming, there's just a lot of there's a lot of fucking problems in gaming. And I think someone on Twitter put it succinctly, for like, three decades, games have been made, like, have been made by white men, for white men. And as you know, like, it's just as big circle, which is not to say they're only for them. But that's like, what it's been built into. And it's not been challenged. And I mean, and I definitely don't think that's coming from a place of malice. But now we're in a place where it's like, oh, no, the hero is black. That's a problem that are like Assassin's Creed, there's a there's a female, Viking. That's a problem. And, and to bring that to like, George Floyd last few years, it just felt like, it felt like I saw that in gaming. And then I would see, like, with Trump being president, like a bunch of racism being sold, and all this was leading up to like, 2020. And then like, all these things that I was watching and paying attention and learning and being like, okay, like, this is why that's what it is. And like, that's bad, and like, diversity, diversity, good. And you know, things, all the things like be kind of bubbled up, and it was just kind of like, calcified all of these things that I was seeing, and all these different places. And as being like, I don't know, it was very much. It was definitely a big year. And putting all that perspective made me feel like it was kind of like all these separate parts and problems, which is not a lot of different areas in my life and that like complex, but all these different problems, all in the same problem. Also, like red bell hooks for a brute for a book club, right before pandemic and she was calling everything a problem and what does it what does she calls it, the white, patriarchal, she was like five buzzwords that he has described. Why are things the way she things are, you know, and it was just like, oh my gosh, like seeing the way people were reacting to George Floyd and to breonna Taylor and to like, to like, like, you know, all these people, these processes are rioters like, Oh, my God is like, just to see that discourse really, like, felt like it put me on my toes and like, I have to like, be I have to pay more attention. You know, I'm never going to be like some of my bandmates who like, some of them used to organize but like, I like I have to pay attention. I have to be abreast I have to, like, watch the news in the see. What isn't like, in my little corner of the world, which is online forums a lot. I have to like, speak up and say, Hey, like, no, they're protesting. And it's like, it's like, there's yes, there's a difference between people using violence for change in the state using violence for oppression, you know, then like to have to, I had to start articulating a lot of things, a lot of things. I didn't say have to like, as the internet. I don't have to do anything. But like, I felt compelled to, and I felt compelled to like, have real conversations, I guess that were more than meaningful. I want to touch base, again, reiterate the question one more time, because I don't want to drift too far from it.

Kit Heintzman 58:44
What have been some of the biggest issues on your mind over the last year and some change?

Khalyle Hagood 58:49
Alright, biggest issues, right? So some of the biggest issues have been like, not just systemic racism is real. I knew that I like I really learned. Like, I definitely as a child would get into fights with the white kids that live in white neighborhoods, and they would call me the N word. And I would just be like, Huh, what's that word, Mama? You know, but it really came together for me about 2010 When I was driving to Detroit from Chicago, and I got pulled over and I got my first driving while black. They thought I was taking drugs from Chicago to fucking Detroit. Oh my god, I pulled over for speeding even though I was getting passed by other people. Right? But it was definitely like a, like, issues went on my mind is more just like, not just that it's real, but like, holy shit. People really don't think systemic racism is real. Holy shit. People don't think the patriarchy is real, like holy shit. People think cops killing people is fine. Like, like, it is just like, like, I knew it was fine, right? Like, it's definitely the first time it's happened so many times before, but also like, I'm, I'm 30 I'm not like old as my parents, you know? Like, like, and I grew up in I grew up in places where there were so many white people. And I was a good minority that that I didn't really rub up against that a lot. So to see like, it's overwhelming to be like, No, it's just not the fucking 14 year old who calls you the N word on x box live because he's a piece of shit. It is like, his entire community just really thinks that and it's not just it's not just white people, of course, Asians, fucking Chinese Kung Fu like and we saw what just happened a few weeks ago or was just last week and it's just like, like, Holy fuck, like, it's just like people it's so it's so a motive to be like some there's some times where I feel like like post is nothing is post racism for sure. But it definitely sometimes would feel like we are post Klu Klux Klan. Right. And of course, that has been real, since like the fucking south. One of the Carolinas can remember that whole deal where they fucking ran that woman over and killed it with the charger, like, in the fucking tiki torches. Like, like, of course that's it's been a sad thing since then. But it's just really like, holy shit like weird. Like, it was also weird because we are just should have united as a people against our government treating us like shit during a pandemic and be like, no, no, they hate they hate minorities so bad that and tangentially not that is especially concerning to that but like, as a side effect of being in a very woke scene and you know, thinking about identity politics, like and following a bunch of bread tubers like I've also just thought like, man, trans people have always just had it bad and still have it bad, gay people still do have it bad, women have it bad, there trying to fuckin pass pass laws to like fuckin which abortion and the fucking south in the south and across the seas. Like one of my favorite YouTubers, Abigail Thoren came out and she's like, great. I'm now the queen of turf Island. And I learned like, this is just these are things that on my mind, it's not necessarily like with American COVID But it's just also like, oh my god, like, I didn't realize the UK was so bad. And Oh, speaking of JK Rowling's awful descent into madness is such a betrayal. It is just like, how could you woman? How could you? But but like so the things have been like that have been on my mind. Things have been another thing that's been on my mind is like, now they're going working from home. I went into my alley one day, and I saw a bunch of clothes thrown out. And I said out loud what the fuck is this? Because I'm just not used to like a bunch of trash my alley. I definitely don't live in the best place ever. But like steal all the trash, you usually buy the garbage on the ground it was thrown about. And then I heard a voice saying, Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You know, and I look at this, this dude, who looks about my age, and when I think is his son, and they're going through trash. And you're like, I'm sorry, even though like I could tell, like it wasn't them who did it. I didn't know were there. So I was even talking to them. And they said sorry, but I could tell like these clothes weren't theirs. Like this was my neighbors and like. And I'm gonna and I didn't say anything. I was just like, embarrassed. I'm just like, I was too embarrassed to say anything to this homeless man and his child. His child was like 10 years old to be like, I'm obviously not talking about you. But like, I came back inside. I'm just like, I don't have a high school degree. I'm sorry, I don't have a college you have a high school degree. Like I never finished college. My job is fucking easy. I had a crisis of work was like my job is easy. I could teach that man and ally to do my job and like couple weeks, but he's in the alley and like, like, I don't know being able to have a screen I got two screens now my job bought me a cable so I can hook up a second monitor which I appreciate actually don't use it for work I use it to surf Reddit and shit. But like now they got these two screens I don't glued into it's just really just been like like, ever since Trump got elected has always been like wow, things are still pretty awful but like this last year is just like I'm waking up to the reality that already exists. I'm not trying to pretend these are new things. It's like oh, things are really awful. So I'm thinking about like that. I you know like I'm thinking of your I have talked about about my mom having go to work my friends still working in a fucking fast food joint where people don't want to wear a mask inside. I'm just in my friend. He plays saxophone so it's like yeah, I asked him he's like He plays guitar it doesn't he has to breathe and again I'm so happy that he's been fine but it's just like we are just so much in this fucking rat race this is what's been on my mind is just like this rat race to the bottom is so hot so garbage. oddly enough also has been on my mind is journalism. And gaming is hard because all of those baggage as I told you about get thrown up at these people who are writing about them. And a reason why it's important to me is one of my best friends just got one of his dream jobs of being a reporter he doesn't do gaming journalism, you know, he does sometimes writes for games. He He's like reviewing animated for like a publication. And it's and I follow him and I follow all of his like peers because there's like a, there's like a game journalism and an adjacent Twitter group online. And it's like, seeing, seeing the way people engage with game journalism and how people are idiots about how journalism work. And sometimes someone's like, I'm gonna explain to journalism work. And then they just, like, cover their ears and don't want to know, that explains why people like, Trump could just go into say, some wild shit and like, people just fucking fall down and like, fucking listen to him. But I saw it on a small scale to be like to see my friends and his and his friends go through and it's just like, Oh, my God, like, you know, it's like, this is why this has happened. So my mind is also like, how much work it takes to, to do that, and what else has been on my mind? Like, I'm honestly, just like, how, like, I don't It's like how to get out. My mind is also about guns, of course, because it's hard, because on one hand, I don't think people should just be having guns to shoot other people. But then on the other hand, it's just like, like, you know, they say, a guy, a good guy with a gun doesn't save the day. I definitely agree with that. But I'm also like, someone, oh, wow, this is bad. Somebody should probably stand up to the people with guns and badgers who are just gunning down innocent people. And I don't, I don't have a fully formed thought about what that is. And again, because sometimes I don't want to look at it, I don't want to have those challenging thoughts. And I am in a comfortable place. I can kind of just work at home in my box in my bubble, but it's just like, it's just like, what is there to do about it, man, you know, and it's, it's, it's also hard. And I've also really thought about nuance a lot in these last few in these last few years, like nuanced, like, ever since, you know, talking to gamers fucking five years ago about diversity and gaming, starting, they're coming all the way to now about talking about diversity in real fucking life and people's real fucking lives, like the new ones has been, I used to love it. I used to, like, from from college age to about five years ago, when I started really thinking about it. I used to love going online and arguing with people for hours and hours and hours. And there was like, one week where I just had a really successful argument in the sense that I won. But it stressed me out I was at work just like couldn't focus at work because of how much it wasn't. I've been like, I don't want to do this anymore. So I've been taking a step back from arguing online until recently, and now it's just like, and part of it just because of the nuance and people don't get new ones. I was just in a thread. There was a there was a there's a there's an editorialized title, it was just like pollution, which also another thing has been on my mind is pollution because I can't remember what news bit in the last few years brought it up. But I've definitely probably you know, Greta was how you say it Thornburg and like I started following her and see what she does, but definitely like, how pollution is bad. And like most pollution is from corporations and how much corporations just don't give a fuck is like, but I was like going with where was I going with this about the corporations? Oh, I got so distracted by how bad they are and pollution how bad they are in general. What was I just saying? I was about to lean on something about them. What's going on my mind about them? I think I fucking lost it. Oh, nuances about new ones. Right? Like, and it's just so much like some woman some woman

Khalyle Hagood 1:08:45
Which I don't mean to downplay that, you know, this is a woman that is bad, but just I should be more clear. This PhD doctor was doing research for years had published a book and our findings are just peer review. Then there's an editor editorialized out of oh, it was just like pollution may lead to smaller penises and infertility and so on in the comments was just like, that smells like bullshit. Which okay. Like, okay, the first top level comment not so bad, but it was very much but then it was just like, but it wasn't so bad as smells like bullshit, but it was like it smells like bullshit because I know what bullshit smells like and it's like, Who the fuck are you like, this is a woman Doc is a doctor who spent years of her life to make this study and posted a peer reviewed article and they're just like, it's like, I don't care if she's a doctor. Like there's Nobel Peace Prize for Physics doesn't believe in like, I forgot what he said. He doesn't believe in climate change. I'm like, as problematic as that is. He's a physicist. It's like that's not his wheelhouse doesn't matter. And I don't mean it's like, like it does matter that he doesn't believe in it but like he'll like you want to be that's not an example of someone and someone as an authority being wrong because he is not an authority on climate change. And they were just like, well, a bunch of peer reviewed studies are refuted all the time. And I'm just like, that's when I stopped talking. But it definitely was like a like, but the fact that someone brought up the example, then this is an expert who's wrong and it's like, well, no, they're expert about something else in they’re wrong about something not expert about like that, that was lost on him. It's just like nuanced stuff like that. It's just been like, because nuance can't happen. It makes conversation so hard it it makes explain the difference between people protesting because police kill minorities, not just black people, minorities indiscriminately is different from people rioting on the on the Capitol, because, you know, they believe that that democracy is demonic. Like, like, there's time to explain the difference. It's so frustrating. And I find just a lot of my thoughts about things have been nuanced. I definitely will see I have friends who love to post excitable things online, and I'll go to time, not against them, but against their attractors and be like, well, actually, if you really think about it, I'm just like, What am I doing? Like, I'm not getting paid to write an essay. And like, what the fuck am I doing also, to circle back to my friend he got he got a promotion to working as a journalist. He once tweeted, like, I have a lot of thoughts about something, but I get paid for every word I write, so I'm not gonna I'm not gonna tweet anymore. And he's a little journalist. And since then, I've been thinking like, I don't get paid so I definitely can afford to say things but I definitely been more about like, how much time is it going to take me to get into the nuance about why someone's view is problematic and maybe I should just let someone in universe punch them in the mouth at some point and just hope that happens. Hope hopes that happens right? You know that's that's it also punching Nazis love it love you'd love to see it i i love to see it. It's a great I do think violence is bad but I do like punch I do like it when people punch Nazis so those have been on my mind also been on my mind is my bands where I have that one on one friends, and how I fostered a connection there. And my connection isn't that strong, my other bands, and I've explicitly like I've explicitly like been shutting people out. And but on my mind is about how like, I need to be a more open person, I need to like, be more open and and be more willing to be open with my friends. You know, it's really funny because like going to school in the South. I will say I started dipping going to school in Mississippi four years from like, 2008 When I first and I left in 2012 Going to school down there. I definitely didn't have a problem with the gays which I kind of am part of that now. But back then before I knew more about myself, I didnt have a problem with gays. But it was definitely a different from like, the two gay people in my high school were well liked. And nobody, you know, treated them badly that I knew about and see then going down south, and just seeing like, flagrant homophobia around town. And thank goodness, there was no trans. I say things goodness, I don't mean this in the sense that they shouldn't exist. But thank goodness, there was nobody trans around because it probably would have been even worse. But like I really went in this in but just seeing how bad people were about it. And I'm just like, this is this isn’t cool like, you guys are really awful. I just remember telling my talking to my, to this couple couple of lesbians everyone became friends with. And they were just like, yeah, it's totally chill that my parents don't support us, this was before like gay marriage you know, the Supreme Court. They say it's totally chill that my family don't support it. You know, they love me, I'm just like, your family doesn't want you to be happy. Like they don't think you deserve rights. Like, I'm sure they love you. But like, I don't think you're thinking that hard about it like, and I got super lucky even back when I was I told myself I was trying to tell my parents I’m straight were like, my mom was definitely like, Hey, if you're gay, that's totally cool. And I'm like, I'm not like but if you are that's cool. Is like glad to know but I'm not you know. And so like so it's been on my mind about like so I guess to bring that to the forefront is just like overtime has been like okay, now I'm in this ended up in the scene. Everyone's so inclusive and it's like great, everyone is inclusive. I'm nice everyone but I don't share myself and as I'm very much to myself and now I’m just like, I just spent quarantine talking to my bandmate and look how great that's going and then my other bandmate to some of them and this was like I've been thinking about How like, how to be more vulnerable and how to like, allow a space because our because probably one of our best moments that made me really think, because I really do try to reflect on all the talks that I have with my bandmates, even after the music about how we talk, because after we got this report down, we're really intuitive feelings like, we were working one day, and she made a comment about how she was talking about Polly and I looked at the clock, and I misread the clock. And I was like, we're only an hour and 30 minutes into our normal two hours and like, we can keep going. And then we keep going. And then I realized, like, wait, no, we were two hours and 30 minutes into our two hours. And like, I was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. We can call it here. And she was like, Great, thank you and call it and then I sat back and we're done. And I've gotten a shower. I'm just like, that wasn't good enough. Because even if we had established that we will do two hours, like, and let's say it was an hour and a half, my friend was just like, hey, I'm not feeling it. I should have just been like, Okay, check. Doesn't matter how long it's been, what are you feeling now? This is like a creative thing between friends. And like, if you're not feeling like we definitely we because so far we'd always stopped before we like we didn't even get started to feel good. But like I had even considered like, you could change what was happening. And I had to apologize. You know, it was just like, hey, it wasn't enough. That, you know, I apologize for like not getting the timing wrong. I had to apologize for like, not even listening, even if the regardless of time and like, I've I've really ruminate on it. And it's just like, I have to bring that kind of energy to like, a lot more spaces. And that's when and like, and I get apprehensive, because I don't have to do it yet. I'm still we're still in lockdown. And I haven't got a shot yet. So who knows. But I still one thing that's been on my mind last few months, it's just like, how am I going to bring some being more soft to where I am? On a personal level. So yeah, big things are happening. Oh, another thing that also come up randomly is that in the music space, there has been a lot of misogyny going on. And I've been able to watch some woman producers that I value, you know, speak on it and think about and say things that are important to how they should be handled both more famous people and local people. And also think about how like, I'm sure there's gonna be a time when we're all back at shows where some guy's gonna be like, say some condescending shit. And now I have to be prepared to turn it on. And be like Yo, bro. Like, check that shit in like, I don't know, I think about that. I think about just how much like saying something is important. Like, again, my my words are valuable. My time is valuable. But definitely in person. That's kind of different ballgame. Like this is like, messages hit different when there's like a person standing there being like, your bad. Also, another thing, it hasn't happened recently. But like about three or four people got cancelled in our scene over the summer. And like a lot of people talked a big game about changing how our scene is gonna work music scene. But COVID gone on so long and has happened so far along ago, it's going to be interesting how that's going to shake out and I don't doubt that it's going to be better. But I'm still just interested in how much better is going to be like a little bit better, a lot better, but I'm positive, everything is going to be better. But those are the things that I think about.

Kit Heintzman 1:18:37
I’m curious, what does health mean to you?

Khalyle Hagood 1:18:45
Health to me, means it's grown to mean so much more to means like, well being like top to bottom. Like healthiness is like everything and like it's just being stress free. From as everything from everything and I'll get more explicit. So it's like it's definitely mentally and physically but I'm trying to think of example, like I would say one of my bandmates isn't healthy. Because he makes great money. He has a fiancee now who's gorgeous and like, after a lifetime, because he's older than me, by a few years he’ll know who he is if he's watching, after a lifetime of like having a slow startup and music. A lot of things fell into place for him and I definitely think things are going well I haven't talked to him during quarantine unfortunately, part of my don't talk to anybody or going well but sometimes I concerned about his health because he seems tightly wound so much and like some of it is and it's it's like he's just tightly wound and so I'm concerned about him. cuz it's just like, I wish she could relax. I wish he could, like, enjoy what he's gotten and yea not everything is like peachy keen, but it's, and I'm not gonna say his life isn't hard. But it's just like, the fact that he's still bothered is kind of makes me sad. And, and like, so does that one I also think that health is like, I think a public health, I think of like, it’s so big, like health has just grown so big in this last year's health. It can be some, like healthy community is like, you know, a community that's like, not over policed and has opportunities to grow. Like that's a healthy community, a healthy individual. A healthy individual is someone who has like support from if not their family, from their community, or like the room and the resources to choose to be able to at least choose to do better, right? Like, the pull from the bootstrap saying, I'm gonna say it doesn't exist, but it doesn't exist in the current system, when people are hogging the bootstraps, and aren't giving it to anyone. It's just like, Oh, you're on the street because, like, you know, neurological disorder too bad. You don't get like anything to help that we're just gonna fucking scoffing at you. You know, I'm gonna be a bit graphic right now. Like, I used to think homeless people smell badly. And then when my my hygiene went away, I'm just like, Oh, this isn't because they like like, that's just the smell of when you accidentally get pissed on your clothes, and you can't wash your clothes and like, they're shitting in alleys. And it's just like, unfortunately, I found out what that was, because of how bad and dumps I've been, but it's just like it but it really connected me to like, the people who lived in my neighborhood. It's just like, oh, man, like, like, that's helalth. Like, like, that's a sickness of society, right? That we can do so much and we don't do for them. And health is also like taking care of your friends on a personal level asking how they're doing, like it's not just enough that your friend has a job can pay their bills. And like you I mean, like there's just a level beneath what the patriarchy has told me it is okay to talk about there's just a level beneath and that you got to check up and be fine and being okay. And health is also like, like, just government being fucking responsible and being like, commissioning vaccines and doing research and like, not being like, Oh, don't worry about it and not like didn't they like fucking send the police that one doctor who was like she had results for the See, I want to say she had results for the CDC and they were like, ignored her results. And she posted them and she got like fucking swatted by the government and like they seem because she like I think and this is this happened a long time ago my facts could be could be wrong. I thought I thought the problem was they swatted because she releases information since information but it's like but the government wasn't using this data to help people and we're just ignoring it being like that's cute dear whatever like like you know it's it's it's so much like health is health is just it's so big. I don't know health this is really like how we're doing the society like poor health is having to go like it's alot and individual health is also just like my health isn't bad like it's been good in the sense of like, I'm eating fine you know, I there's since I someone's a doctor you know, there's nothing wrong with my body you know, but like being in this room has felt unhealthy I don't know it's it's so it's so big and it's hard to I feel like I can't even answer in a good way. Health is everything what is health? Oh, health is also like, man, like every winter I tell myself I'm gonna finally winter prove my apartment. And I have not and like I'm inside with heat and a heater going out of my fucking mind about how cold it is. And I'm just like, why like then I think about the homeless people you know, just like Holy fucking shit. There's people outside in this mess in like, I'm sitting here complaining complaining in my home and I have like a good blanket I could throw on you know, fucking I don’t know, It’s madness and also health I think is like how jobs treat people right. Like I don't know. Obviously my job has been treating me badly but I just I just think we're cultures unhealthy I was watching this video about how long people were and I you know, and I thought working from home would change how I felt about work. But nah like, pay people the same and let them work. I can do the math 32 hours a week. Like just change what is full change nothing else. About what full time is considered, but dock down to 32 hours a week, and give people off, don't you have to get everyone off the same day, some people can be off on Monday, some people off on Friday, but just get everybody off, you know? Like, it's not just enough to have things. It's just like, I want the time to enjoy the things that I got, I want the time to be healthy. Like one reason why I didn't go to the doctor was simply because I was in all these bands. And part of that was me making unhealthy choices to just be so engaged. But also part of this is just like, I work 40 hours a week, and then I gotta go to the band stuff afterwards. You know? And I don't know and health. Also, fast food restaurants not gonna get into that, but I did my time in the fast food industry. And yeah, they could use some more health, they could use some more man, talk about people who need sick days. But that's Oh, that's argument is, you know, as a thing is feels, I feel like babies sometimes, because it's just like, all these things. I'm just like, Oh my God, that's important. Oh, my God, that's important. And then like, the foundational texts for these are like, fucking older than my parents. My grandparents some of the time is like, I feel kind of silly. Sometimes. But yeah, so health has just been like, it's just like, the fracturing of community broken down into like, like, Bell Hooks even talks about social health and how it's just like, it used to like how a village raises a child, like, I had some, I've got my own family issues, but like, and I'm very in and there's definitely, just like, I don't I grew up away from my family. My dad is from South Carolina, my mom is from Florida, right? Like, our closest family was 14 hours away. For most of my life. I mean, we drive once a year, but that wasn't what so we saw them once a year, I'm not close to my extended family. Like, I just don't know them. And I don't know their culture. I'm outside every time. Also, my favorite cousin, who was supposed to be a doctor is very much not a doctor with some real shit, like a few years ago, and fell super hard off and I'm just like, Damn, that's fair. But like, so help. And it's just like, like, and part of this is because we were in the military. And they moved us was like, like, just how, like, there's one good thing about the family upstairs, was that I do think the parents, their parents used to be the ones who lived and they moved out, and it shouldn't even come and help watch the kids sometimes, right? And that's like, that is good. That's unquestionably good. And like, I don't know, broken families, man. Like, you just got to, like, so much about work in society. And capitalism is meant to break families, and I think just give me more time for their families. And then like, it will be more like, if you see your family all the time, you're gonna be more open and more sharing and more intuitive anything seems off about you'd be like, hey, maybe she went to the doctor and you work less you go to the doctor more, I don't know. And like, also health is just fucking a unified was like, Help, oh, help is also bad. And the like, like, the separate. It's hard to articulate it, but like, the separation of church and state, ideally, it makes sense. It's just like, cool. The, you know, someone's, and I just mean this in the sense of like, for most religions, if their religion is choose someone else's religion is make believe friends. So like, for some people's make believe friends don't govern which you who don't follow that friend have to be right, that makes sense. Everyone gets hurt or something. But like, I feel like kind of the opposite needs to happen with science. And we're like, what health is just kind of like,

Khalyle Hagood 1:28:45
You know, the whole Texas being like, in other southern states, we're not gonna have the mask mandate no mask mandate. And this is like, and it seems like because it's already not really an enforceable thing. Like it's really hard to enforce a mask mandate. So like, why can't you just go on the books and be like, yes, we have a government level support this obviously easy to do health measure, right to have masks. And one thing I learned early in the pandemic is that, you know, good masks aren't cheap. And some people who were poor just like already scraping by to afford like masks cost money, and this is like and that's the whole thing right before especially back when they're selling out and selling like hotcakes like toilet paper, it was just like some people were just couldn't afford to budget for masks to change out their masks every day to take the job that they have to go to because they're an essential worker. So like health would also be like, the government not being shit, and being like, hey, we just took a census. Let's just send the mask to every fuckin house. Everywhere to the address, set the masks. If no one's there, great. There's an extra mask lying around for somebody. I don't know health is just been like, health has been something to me. get like, people has also been something that people, myself included, just don't prioritize because it's like, it's just not set up that way. So yeah, that's health for me health has just been. I had the Inkling Inklings that health is more than just how good your physical body is. And that's just everything has been like wrapping around. And this again this is me who didn't have to really go to the doctor during COVID. I can't imagine people still having to do that. I'm sure they have awful times, you know, awful times.

Kit Heintzman 1:30:30
What are some of the things you'd like for your health and the health of those around you, and how do you think we get there?

Khalyle Hagood 1:30:37
What would I like for my health? Started thinking because sometimes I don't think about myself because I feel like I'm in too good of a place some worry about what I want. I'm definitely a selfish person, dont get it wrong, but like, I don't think about health. So I guess things, health I want for myself and people around me like part of it's hard because even though I've been in Chicago for seven years, I'm still like an outsider. I don't know very much about what's going on here, right? I don't know. I don't know so much about living here. I'm still definitely like a visitor. So when you asked me to help them out people around me it feels like a question about the community. But I have no idea about the community that I see is like the people I see on the side of the street every day when I go to the bus, right? And I don't know their stories and honestly, I don't talk to them because I gruffly have the whole don't talk to strangers. Even I'm a grown ass man. I still have like a don't talk to strangers thing I know not from here. It's just like, I just don't want to talk to and also sometimes I just get annoyed because like, it's a little thing. But I play bass. And someone asked me like so is that a guitar? I'm like, it's a bass and it's just all of a sudden don't want to talk to me. This is the bass like, Okay, I don't know, that's, that's really a nitpick. But I guess for health, it's like, the health of people around me is you know, there was a friend of mine has had a rough time, right at the right turn of the 2019 2020 was having a rough time. And I was I was having a rough time. And a center opened in our neighborhood that was free for anybody who lived in our zip code. And it was like, counseling and like a clinic and stuff like that. And I thought, bro, you're sad. I'm sad. Let's take time out to go to this place together, right? And he was way worse than me. And I'm like, I'm going to help take charge of being there for you, my friends. Let's go there. And he's like, Alright, that's good. It just opened up, right? And I go look at the times, and it closes at like four. And I work nine to five. And it's just like, I'm not gonna say that it doesn't deserve to exist. I'm just like, can we get like some staggered times? Like, it wasn't like, like, every day it closed them, or can we get like, and it was closed on the weekends. And it was like, like and understand it's a brand new health clinic. And they just got all this money and the local government. And yeah, this is obviously a cue or maybe I should be more concerned about the local government to actually find out who does what around here. But it was definitely just like, I wish I didn't have to be responsible. I wish I was selfish and irresponsible. And that like a service like that could just be open. Because I mean, my neighborhood is kind of rough. Compared to I'm a suburban kid. And now I live in the city. Right? So first of all that kind of colors, my roughness around here. It's not that bad. I mean, it's getting gentrified. So it can't be that bad. But it's still rougher than I'm used to. And it's just like, so people around me I would love for like that type of center to be more readily available. For people around me. I will say some good thing is that like there's a gym down the street. That's actually surprising, pretty cheap. And I think you can shower in that gym, but like, I don't know. I wish that I wish I wish the city didn't have my neighborhood as a food desert. They have to go pretty far to get food around me. And a lot of people here don't always get on the bus and things like that I wish for in terms of health, it will be very healthy is that people got tried to CTA for free and the Chicago Transit for free. Because the all the hospitals are like a neighborhood or two over. So it's like not a quick walk. I've walked in it's not a quick walk. I walked because I had the luxury to take the time to walk there. Not because I'm someone who is transportationlly bound because I have a bicycle. You know, health is just, I would want more resources. I would be really nice in a dream world for someone to just be like, Hey, you actually can't afford to be healthy. So we're just gonna give you the resource is not going to ask questions. You know, I kind of I had to, like, I used that be cagey about that. But like, I think what really opened my heart about that it's just one day I just realized, you know, This I was like this homeless man is probably gonna use my money for liquor and then I was just like man this homeless man is living at absolutely shitting life let him have liquor, like I obviously life and I go drink let this man drink like fucking a $20 bill was not gonna like get this man off the street so it's just like yeah man go get it go get whatever you fucking want and so I'm just kind of like health would be like everyone realizing oh you're just way too off just get it what do you need to you need go see someone like fucking go get it right universal health care but like so like health is an for I guess health for my friends and also be like on a personal level I'm going to try to take again what I learned in my one on one bands to all my other bands because like like what before the pandemic like on the slide one of our bandmates was just realized we didn't have a lot of gigs up and he just told her bandleader like, hey, I need to take time off. Not feeling it. Alright, cool. And then, but no one knew. So we just wanted to practice and he wasn't there. And I was like, guys take some time off and like, I would have been so cool. If like, maybe we just could have he could like he was in a space where he could have just said that in a meeting. Everyone's like, Oh man, I'm sorry, we're here for you. Go take it off, you know, and it's, it's an it's not that simple. Because, like, I get weird when people get emotional around me. And that's the problem. And it's just like, cuz I'm just kind of like, I can't relate. And, and I don't know, health is just gonna be like, fucking people, caring more about other people and then manifesting that in our policies and systems. And I'm using all these nice big words when I don't know exactly how they implemented but I got my so that my training wheels on, I guess. I guess also health for me is really going to be like, this is going to be kind of personal way that's like, not really hasn't been talked about before. But like I've kind of had a crisis of like, what the fuck am I doing on this earth? Like? Like, I've definitely heart like I would say in the last years and recently I've definitely hard settled that like, life is ultimately meaningless. There's no great beyond and like, it's literally what you make it and like when people die, they die. But then like, I like to spend on the positive things where it's like, then maybe we shouldn't the government should never kill anybody because like, this is all we got. And like, even as bad as some people are, it's like, this is all we got. And then I'm in like, you know what I'm and I'm like, if nothing means anything, that means you can make your life mean anything. So like, go live for free. Like I'm really trying to spin the melting into a positive way and I'm really working, but I've been thinking like, okay, great. Now that I'm on a positive track. What does it mean? Like? Like, like, what is the healthy lifestyle for the person that I am mean like, I bought it I went to I've been meaning to get a gym membership for the last three months, and I haven't done it yet. I got the papers now, baby steps but I'm trying to go back to the gym, I feel like health is going to be me. Putting more space in these bands, you know when things start grinding up to be like, okay, like only so many bands active at one time, I would say like a big growing point was during code during the beginning. Like in the summer during COVID I was asked to perform and for a special one off band from this guy that I had known him for quite a few years. He was like, hey, I want you to my bass and I was just like Oh, give me some more details. I don't want to go inside and COVID stricken building and reformulate Oh, outside on a stage just like a ring and like the audience is gonna be far away from you. And they're gonna test you before you get on stage. And everyone in the band is like we have our space of practice is huge. And it was huge. So we're standing like fucking, like 15 feet apart with our instruments in a huge circle. Right? So I was like, Okay, this seems chill, I can do that. Right. But then later, because and that paid well, which is good for everyone. Because unlike most of my musician, friends, I have a day job. So like, I knew they needed some money and I and I just wanted to help them because I like I like this person and I and I'm very I just admire anyone who's just like, This is my dream, but I'm gonna do it. And this guy's like, main thing is a lot of peoples main thing is being a musician, which is so fucking hard and holy shit being a musician when there's no shows. For me it's fine. Regular day job for them is awful. They just had no shows for a year and just fucking didn't have a job. One of my friends is was lost her job and just finally got a new job like fucking 10 months later. But like in terms of growth and health, right, like an advancing like that same guy asked me to play another show that was inside in a smaller place and like, for like two weeks I was just stressing like, oh my god, I have to tell my friend that I just don't feel comfortable and it's a whole thing. And like I don't know that to be something wrong about myself. And like how to healthily establish boundaries, I guess. But you know, that's something else. So health is like health is also boundaries. But yeah.

Kit Heintzman 1:39:56
Would you tell me what safety means to you?

Khalyle Hagood 1:39:59
Safety, I was just thinking about that, I remember the start of COVID. And everyone was saying stay in quarantine, everyone's just like, holy shit, all the people who are in domestic abuse situations are now trapped with their abuser. And like, I never found out what really happened to that, because I'm been fortunate enough, or ignorant enough to no one I know is personally know is in such a situation, except the people upstairs, but theyre weird the mans is like get out and the woman's like, I'm leaving you. But they've been saying that for like, four months, and they're still there. So I don't know what's going on up there. But, um, but, um, like, safety is also just like, kind of leaving the hell but it's just like, if anyone's in trouble, like, shit, like, we just have the resources to make them feel to like to take care of safety is like getting everyone on board for so many things like, and are seeing the people cancel was like consent, like, people violate people's consent. And so they got, like, kicked out of the scene. And that's a weird thing, because it's just like, people, like, it's like, they didn't kill anybody, you know? And it's just like, we can't, like, can't shouldn't kick them out forever, you know? Because like, right, everyone's just like, oh, man, he definitely, like sexually assaulted that person. He's gone. And it's like, for life, and I mean, like, I don't have an answer. I'm not even suggest I'm not even gonna put forth a number. But it's still like, safety is just like, this person is important to their friends and to the scene and ends, which is not more important than the safety of other people. But it's like, how do we rehabilitate this person to make them? Because I mean, like, again, this is just on a social level, because it gets to prisons, like how do you rehabilitate people in prison, to be back to be back society, I want to someone in my very close family went to prison for like, fucking seven or eight years, which is very, for how close they are to me and the family tree. And how they weren't in my life for long, like, right, as soon as I started to get to know them, they went to prison. And it's just like, and it's sometimes scary and sad talking to them. And this is a tangent, because it's not really about safety. Because it's just like, Oh my fucking god, you're almost 40 And like, you just lost like, almost a decade of your life. And so much shit happened. And like, now you're just, you know, you're just a felon for the rest of your life. I don’t know. So I guess with safety. It's also like, how do we protect people from just the dangers? How do we protect sack society from dangers? Like, I guess safety to me is going to be like, from like, interpersonally like consent, like respecting, respecting boundaries is probably keeping a safety. It's just like, if everyone's expected everyone else's boundaries. I think that would solve a fair amount. I wouldn't say all fair amount of problems is just like, am I seen someone says no to you, you gotta you gotta fucking back off. Like, you know, all right. Safety is also gonna be like, conflict management, like a lot of personal stuff is just like, you're getting mad. They're getting mad. You may just gotta go home. This is like, just like, Yeah, okay. Yeah, like you paid to be here or like, or like, this is your show or something like that, but you just may have to go. Because, like, you just don't know what people will fucking do. You know? And I'm not like paranoid of people. But like, a lot of safety is just safety from somebody who Okay, and I'm gonna say this is gonna sound very ironic, but on a low level, someone who was just having a bad day and it's just loosing their shit which is obviously extremely fucking different from the fucking murders from these [inaudible], but I just I mean, strictly because, like, on my scene for those guys, that type of safety, that's just like, that's hard. It's hard not because the solution is complicated as hard because you have half the country you have everyone arguing about what the solution is, and I'm not gonna pretend I know the answer, but it's just like we're at a point where it's just like, we can't come to consensus on a solution so we're gonna do nothing and it's like it's like, really try something you know, like, like, like, like, maybe it will work but like try it at the baseline or the very least at the baseline like I don't know safety is safety can also just come from communities being connected and better and nice to each other. You're not gonna like rob you're fucking Okay. Some people are deviance but you're not really gonna rob your fucking neighbor. Like, I live next to some guy who like is like a technical lead on the plays at UIC downtown like like, I'm gonna go rob this guy who does plays like like I don't rob people firstly, like you don't especially not gonna rob this older gentlemen like hes making art and like facilitating young people to create it's not going to lead or I'm not going to rob the people who person who works late because they're putting food on the table like we should Like safety is also going to be like, information, knowing more about who the people are around you, and how to interface with people in a way that respects who they are. Safety is going to be like, it becomes another way safety is going to be like, the also. I don't like political correctness. But I don't like people who say the wrong thing. Like one popular thing that I've seen coming up is, there's going to be about trans people again, it's like the whole concept of oh, she's pretending to be a man is it's like, that's not how any of this works. I like it's just like, like, you are projecting, like, very horrible insecurities about yourself on this person. And because You're belittling this person's like, personhood, they're now more susceptible to like violence from other people from being mistreated from other people for not being considered for the people. And like, safety is also going to be like, seeing people down is like no, like, like, like, that is the wrong way. These people are people like you know, and and that's hard. Because Because if someone doesn't see you as a person, or respects your personhood, like it's very easy to other them in society it's very easy to other someone and be like, those other people don't care. And I mean even happens cuz I don’t pretend that I don’t do it but, like I told you about how many were hearing about the virus first in China, it was I was again was just like, oh, like what's going over there? It's like, it's like a movie because it's just like, because we live in this world with these governments and us against them. And China's another capitalistic power and like, even if I'm not like anti China, from like the countrymen, like I've also had 30 years plus generational like Chinese people are the bad people and it's hard to enlighten that manifested in me not being like sad, but being like, more really curious and like, like, gotta fucking love loving your fellow fellow man will go a long way to safety. And that's such a hate saying it because it's very much like a kumbaya er, Kumbaya. Like, this is not going to happen kind of thing. Probably not in my lifetime. And it almost feels kind of hopeless to say it because it's just like, it seems like such a pipe dream, you know, but like, safety is gonna be like, safety is gonna be like, less than jumping from place to place safety is gonna be like less policing, less making people victims, you know? Like, like, here's something that's a little bit light hearted. I came out over the COVID to be longest unbroken piece of shit next to my dumpster. Obviously, someone who was homeless probably shat it out, and it was fucking disgusting, right? And I'm just like, wow, that's awful. That is, I don't think anyone's going to touch that just gotta wait for that to go away. My neighbors were like, We should call the police on it and like to get on a watch. And I'm just kind of like, but what's that gonna do? Exactly, you're gonna put a homeless person in jail for shittng because there's nowhere else to shit because they don’t have a home. Like, what is that going to do? And while I'm definitely anti police, because we don't currently have like a system in place, like there are gonna be sometimes like, they may need to be called like, like but like it's so complicated it's the nuanced part those those earlier like, like the fucking like, right now, we don't really have a task force for and this isn't wild, extreme examples. And I hate when I shoot examples is like the like that one ruling on the internet we're like, every comparison ends up in Nazis because Nazis, the ultimate bad guys, and then you don't have to do and, you know, so I am going to do that. And I know it's not bad, but it's just like the shootings we have. At this point in history, we just kind of gotta call the police and be like, we have no way else to deal with this. We just have to call the police like, so. So it's complicated, but it's just like, we don't need to call the police on the guy who shits in our ally like, like, we may have to end because of the system not being well, we the people wouldn't have building may have to spend money to work out a system that D incentivizes people sitting next to are very conveniently out of sight dumpster, you know, but like, police is not the answer. And oh, man, it's just I'm doing the nuances horrible. And part of the reason why I don't have answers from things because I've because even myself don't want to really think about the nuance. Because it's not it's not just how daunting the problems are. It's about having to explain them to people. And then it's just like, I'm also concern about my own bias. Again, the Chinese thing. I have my own biases. So yeah, sorry, I'm sorry. What was the question again? Definitely drifted? You didn't unmute.

Kit Heintzman 1:50:16
Sorry, wrong button. It was What does safety mean to you?

Khalyle Hagood 1:50:20
Yeah, so safety is. And safety is just really understanding your neighbor and appreciating them as hard as hard for me. I don't want to know my neighbors, but I guess I know enough about them. It's hard. You know, maybe, maybe, maybe, if I don't know if I'm gonna have kids, but I'm definitely going to try to make an effort for my kids to be like, don't be me, be better care about your neighbors, right? Which is the coward's way out of just saying the next generation can do with it. But like, I don't know, I'm human. I'm flawed, and there's this. There's just so much harm reduction that I can do before. I'm just going to be flawed and fail. But I will say I've come a long way. So other people can come a long way too. And maybe I can, I will hopefully be going for. Um, yeah, so that's how I feel about safety.

Kit Heintzman 1:51:16
There's been a really narrow conversation of safety dominating our moment, and I'm wondering how, within the context of COVID-19, you've been determining what feels safe for you and how you've been negotiating that in conversation with others?

Khalyle Hagood 1:51:33
Good question. Um, I saw friends and they did not care about COVID. Like, they just wanted to go dine inside and it was like, fucking November, and I'm like, Oh, they're like, there's there's barely anybody in the restaurant. Like, there's like, also they have outside dining, too. So wasn't technically inside, but don't just like, but there's still other people outside dining at this outside dining restaurant. Like there's a park down the street, let's just, I also didn't want to get food. There was one of the few times I had food to go in. All right, I think my friend I'm wearing masks in order the food and staying outside. And if you've got the food we left, we're sitting in the park and they're just like, and they said to me that like they were they hope she doesn't get mad, but they they were dating a doctor or someone trying to be a doctor and they and they mentioned their annoyance with how some people think COVID seriously. And the doctor from the doctor. And suddenly the other was just like well yeah, it's kind of a serious thing. Like people have their comfort zones just deal with them and I'm not upset at this friend like it's definitely sometimes this person I don't think it wasn't for it. It was just like a it was just a moment where like, I had to stand my ground and like establish my boundaries. Safety for me is just like the terms of feeling safe like I think what I don't feel safe I don't like going to some of at the beginning I would be in like the grocery with my mask even my mask I'm not standing next to people and there was like a weird couple were like child had a mask one of the adults had a mask the other one did not and I'm just like what are you doing like why are you here what your significant other your child and you don't have your only What are you doing? And then no one who was running the store was talking to him like that made me feel very unsafe because it's just like we are variously are very obviously in this pandemic, why are you making this decision and then all these people who just have their nose over their masks is awful the only time that I'm really chill out people not wearing the masks is when you're walking on the sidewalk and you were like 20 feet off. And like that's chill because I don't wear my mat it's it was cold I if I'm by myself those around me I don't wear glasses we can see where I'm going you know but like when we're inside just even inside in this place where people just in the fact that if you're in the same like breathing the same air like put on a mask and so like I didn't feel safe like there and me I would keep my mask off until if I see someone about like 20 like 20 feet is fine but like if they're walking towards me then I'm just slide it out because it's right there. We walked past I wait a little bit so that aback though I'm sure maybe that's not safe, but that's like what we felt safe to me is to never be near someone without a mask on. And like some people just really don't give a shit and my gas station. I'm annoyed because due to the rioting, rioting due to the protests George Floyd protests my dollar tree near me closed a lot of the place like on top of being in a food desert. A lot of the local cheap grocery stores closed for months. So I don't walk very I got used to walk. I like walking. There wasn't like I was already walking a mile and change to go to my grocery store. But now it was like oh, if I want even the littlest thing I have to go I can't just go to Dollar Tree for like a snapple. Some places opened but the dollar tree never reopened. So now the place I was going to go is my local gas station for some snacks. They don't enforce masks, the guys behind the windows, sometimes wear masks don't wears masks, you know, the people who weren't in the store. So the security guard sometimes where is it, sometimes it's around his neck. And they do not stop people coming into the place without masks. And they don't have a personal limit inside. And like, and I felt unsafe, and some of this is on me, because it's like, I know it's bad. And then I'll go and be like, Okay, there's not a lot of people here, go get myself get in line. And then a bunch of people come for gas and a bunch people come inside are not wearing masks. And it's just like, like, I would say like the first few times they will be told to go get one and like they will let people even though it's still bad having masks with the nose over but like this last few times, they just absolutely just no one gives a shit and it's so weird. Like, like, like the the space the gas station is smaller than this room. This is what a really small one. And it's like, Holy fucking shit. Why is this happening? And I don't know how I felt safe. But I didn't want to do a little bit aside and be like, they talked about how COVID was, was disproportionately affecting black people. And they talk about how things like like, and I feel like some people can point to that story and be like, see they do it themselves. I live in a black neighborhood and pretty much all people there are black. The exception to people behind the counter who own the places they're typically not black and like see they do it themselves black. But there's more to that than just that. Like, I don't know, maybe these people are just kind of like you got to talk about on top of the historic historically, slumping or just kind of you know, we're just kind of about about the government telling us medical things over time. Like I mean, there's definitely there's definitely precedents for this. I don't know. And then also, it was It is not like I haven't been to nicer neighborhoods and see people, why, I don't really know it to be color, but like to see a bunch of white people on the street not wearing masks walking down. Like I don't know if you remember. Like, I remember when the last nice days are in summer, like pictures on Chicago subreddit of just like a bunch of people without masks. Why people on the north side just fucking drink. And so I'm just like, yes, but everyone, there's everyone has their pockets, people who ain't doing it. Well, you can't just be like, Oh, the Khalyle just said that his local gas station is doing wrong. And like, there's more to it than that. But personal safety is also like, having to be away from also tangentially, like personal safety has been like isolation, which, you know, you know, isolation kind of leads to not talk to my friends. Which, of course, I have the internet. It's not like, it's not like a big deal. But just isolation is also kind of like mattering. And I'm lucky. I have the internet, not everyone has the internet. I will say like, over the summer working at home, there was a few days where our a power was going in and out. And like my jobs online, so I just text my boss no power, but since I'm just so used to like live working at home, like my phone was on 10%. And it was like, three o'clock, four o'clock, and I had no power and it's getting dark. And I was as a tangent. I was just like, Holy fucking shit. Like my, also my windows are all facing other buildings. So I have very little natural light. And I'm just like, holy shit, I'm about to go. And this was this was like a month ago, like fucking 10 hours with no lights, with no lights, like I can't read. I can't read anything. I can't be on the internet. I just got to sit here at my thoughts, the dark darkness and that was very weird, but like safety is like safety is is also kind of a small thing about safety. Essential workers need people clear their fucking streets so they can get to work in the winter. Because it snows hard. That's the safety thing. You know, you don't want to slip and fall and breaker man, I've slipped and fallen in the parking lot at my job if you like a few winters ago, and like right on the tailbone. So like, I don't know, safety, personal safety is is turned into isolation and personal safety is like not being able to go to places having to take the long way. I also have ridden the bus two times. One time, I ordered a very big piece of musical equipment. And it was broken. So I had to send it back and it was like yeah, just go down to your local ups and send it back and I don't live near ups. So I had to get on and it was like well, if you don't send it back in time, you're just gonna be out like fucking $100 I needed the money so I had to get on a bus and sit there and then another time. I just was it was just raining too hard. And I'm just like, I'm just gonna roll the dice like I've I've definitely walked in rain and snow before but I just bought groceries, it was like carrying a bunch of shit like now because safety to me is again not we're not being on the bus. So I got a book bag, I got a side strap, I got a rolling suitcase that I got a free hand to grab, like any other extra bags. And I'm just like, I am not walking home in the pouring rain. Like that's just not happening. So I got on the bus then Right? And got lucky both times. Both times there were people without masks, but they usually set on the like, way in the back of the bus or not near me. Right. But yeah, so there's the safety has just been like, safety has been kind of driving a wedge between getting to know my fellow man. But understandably so this is the time to be a hermit. I think that's fair, final answer.

Kit Heintzman 2:00:52
This question follows from that. And part of what you've mentioned about isolation, which is what has touch meant to you over this period of time?

Khalyle Hagood 2:01:02
Oh, God, I'm gonna put myself on blast. I already. Don't get as much touch as I wish I would pre COVID And then to be like, hey, all those little flirt things that you were maybe talking about? Gone? Totally got everyone's potted up, they got what they want. And like, you know, no one picked me and that's fine. Okay, to be fair, like, a lot of things kind of fell through for me, and then COVID happened. So it wasn't like, it wasn't literally like people didn't pick me, but it was like, it was just like, wow, this was an awful time to just really be striking out. Like, I typically strike out but like stakeout particularly now, awful time. Touch really sucks, like, like a friend of mine, who she's doing. She's going to school during this time because she has to be in labs. She is. She's so fucking metal. She's this tiny little human. And she's like, studying to be like a coroner or something. So she hangs around in labs with dead bodies all day. And she tells me some of the fucking wild shit that people have died from. And it's just, it's so weird to be such a touchy feely person who's like, no, life is precious. And she's like, it is precious. But these are bodies now. And it is my job, you know, to handle the you know, and so she's just very, like, I have to get a COVID test every other week to go to school because we can't do like some stuff at home, I have to be there to look at bodies, right. And I remember the first time her and her boyfriend came to visit me because we were going to ride bikes and hanging outside just fine, you know, spaced out. And she was like, so you know, are we going to hug or you don't want to you know, you don't want to touch and I thought about it, but she was wearing a mask and her boyfriend was wearing masks and I was just like, I gotta. That was like my first hug in like 14 months, I was just like, Man, Man, that was like, it was just like, I was like I definitely I definitely get it I mean me already being a sad boy, whose boy sad person who's already who's always single a lot anyways, most of my life to be like this, there's a difference between like, maybe I can go to the bar and get lucky and like, no, no bars, not even your friends will blow my nose real quick. Even your friends can't like touch you. There will say though. For my birthday. We definitely got a bit risky. We were told to like my friend who has a fireplace out back. And it was outside my birthdays in the summer. So it was gonna be nice. We're just like, alright, you can invite like, three people. And I was like, Cool. Well, three additional people they had already like the peop the people who live there. A mutual like, that person's girlfriend is also my friend. So like she was there. Or you can invite like three more people and I was like, are cool. I invited to one of our actual personal so you were pretty much like out there. And even then it was like, at some point like a lot of people gave me a hug. And was just like Happy birthday. And I was like, yeah, COVID But like, I am feeling like shit. Like it like to give me an idea of how shitty I felt like I'm definitely it's really weird. My I can't really say that I'm depressed. I'm not to say that I'm medically been told I'm depressed, but it definitely fucking feels like sometimes I'm up and down a lot. So like my birthday. I wasn't feeling the best, but it was really nice to be with my friends. And then like, Oh, just a week later, I was talking to the host about something unrelated. And I was mentioning like, the two couple weeks later, I should say and I was like, Oh man, when was that? 29 Oh, yeah, I was feeling like garbage that day. Like that's why I didn't notice in there just like Wait, isn't it 29th The day after your birthday? And I was like, yes that yes, it was and I just felt like complete shit afterwards. And like, because it wasn't because because it's not just the fact that like, cool. I got touched, like right once the next time. The next time is gonna happen. Touch has been like, more important. Ah, how do I want to phrase this knowing that someone like my mother could see that is no, like, you know, I'm gonna say that I right before COVID I was reading this book called unfuck your intimacy by I can't remember who writes it, she has a whole series on that she's like, she's a therapist, and I was trying to avoid going to therapy by just maybe reading this book about intimacy by a therapist, maybe I could just read that instead. And no, but um, she was definitely like, for growing people self sex is a great way to find out about yourself and experience sex without having to necessarily involve other people. I'm just gonna be honest, it was that this summer I was, I definitely changed my opinion about this COVID I've changed my opinion about what people do in their privacy their homes, and I've never really been that judgmental, but I've been even way more hands off just like, fucking, like, any anything. That also doesn't help that like a few of my friends kind of got closer, I'm just like, Oh, you're into some shit. All right. Okay. You know, so I've just been like, like, I just had to fucking gotta do me, as some rappers would say, and. And like, touch has just been like, I'm really like, it's either like, I've definitely it's there's peaks and valleys right now, I'm definitely not feeling it so bad. Like, I just learned that my zip code can get the vaccine. And so I have a push pull now of like, I can get the vaccine. But I'm sad. And I don't want to leave my apartment. So I got that going on. But But eventually, I'm going to be like, I can get it back, like, but I'm sad, I get vaccine, and I'm sorry for touch to get that fucking vaccine, and also just my personal responsibilities to the community to be vaccinated not transmitted to other people. Because I live in a building, even though I like never really go outside the front ways, my building out the back, but I still live in a building where other people could be, your immunity could be compromised. So I'm gonna have to get one eventually, but in the near future, but like, you know, I'm ready to be touched I'm definitely ready to like, also, I'm ready to just be like, more open about just like, I'm very, I've been very closeted about my desires. In general in life. It's just always been not cool from everything. So just even being like, like a child, I was very much like, I can't tell this person, I like them. Like, I got to read the room, I got to see and now its just like, like, I just went a year and a half no touching, I will tell you now, at the beginning, I would like these things. And if you're not, that's cool. You can be friends or maybe not have a nice day. But like, like, I feel like I'm more like, like, if I'm going to be more upfront about like, Hey, I'm a being who desires to touch. And like, there was a difference back then holding myself back and being like, maybe, you know, the next day, someone may fall in my lap. And now being like, who knows what's going to happen? Who knows if a COVID strain is going to come in and fuck up all this? We just did. I'm just I just got to be more honest with myself that I need to touch into try to consent or, you know, like, be open and respectful to people about that need. And talk to them. You know, it's definitely like you know, it's definitely it's definitely it's honestly, it was like a main thing, but there's definitely times I'm in my room. It's just fucking up late. And I'm sad. And that is a non quiet part of my brain. My brain is just like, the isolation of nobody being in my space to like, touch me and I've also be just been thinking about the little touches a lot more like I've watched some shows and movies, and some of them are about friendships like Shira. I really love that one. And like, sometimes I'm like, Bo, just touch glimmers. I'm gonna be like, hey, glimmer, it's okay. It's just like, I would never like touch the friends arm but like, I don't know, maybe maybe I need to start giving that to my friends and to myself, because like that closeness is important. I mean, like, I didn't know I've definitely seen the studies about how babies that weren't held like got fucked up in nursery because back then they didn't have ethics and science was a lot more loosey goosey, but like, you know, it's it's like, babies. I'm 30 And it's like, no Khalyle. You're not immune. You're not immune. So yeah, I'm definitely saying I've been put in my place. Thinking I was above that. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 2:09:57
I have a small perhaps odd follow up which is How is your relationship to touch shaped in terms of living alone and living with a cat?

Khalyle Hagood 2:10:11
Honestly, good question. Um, there was definitely a deck so my cat is like, I inherited her, like a friend of mine gave her to me, a former friend of mine, she'll probably upset if she reads this or watch this. She gave me my cat to me jinks, and was like, I need you to watch jinks because I'm moving back into my family home. And moving out from you know, where I my situations, my family home and my little siblings are allergic. Can you watch jinks? I'm like, Yeah, I can watch jinks, just just send me some money every so often and I’ll watch jinks, but she, she stopped sending money. And then eventually, she stopped talking to me. And like, I realized what was going on. When I saw on Facebook, she was moving across country with her new man and their new dog. So new city, and I was just like, Fuck it, like, all right, um, okay, that's what it is, then I'm just gonna watch this cat. We don't have to talk. I'm just gonna treat it like my cat. But I told her that I may not move, I may move somewhere where I can't have a pet. And I'm not going to let this cat that's not mine that you dumped on me [inaudible]. And then she was like, Oh, like that was like pretty much all the time. Then finally came time to move here. And this is some lead up to be like, this cat is not really mine. And there was a lot of like, growing pains with this cat, you know, she would hide a lot, like not want to be touched with that. And all the thing that gets to keep it short. I eventually moved here with this cat. I really do like telling back stories. But ever since COVID started, and I've been home, my cat's been getting more friendly. And one and like, like, there was definitely a time when like, I remember like, the first time I saw her, she does not like being separated from her paws on the ground from someone else like, like she wants, she always wants her paw all four paws to be on the ground. You can't like if you put your hands underneath there. Like she didn't like it at first. But now I put my hands underneath her. But if I lift and she'll chill, and if I lift up, she works out this way. Right? And she did not she was not like that at the start of COVID. She's been getting more closer. And it was definitely a time when I was in bed. It was like the first time she climbed in bed when I was sleeping. It was like I want to hang out. And I'm just like, oh, this is great. And I was like, oh my god, this is why there's cat people because you can just you can just have cats. You could just have cats, you can just pet the fuck out of it. Especially the ones that are super close to dogs. Like this is why people get pets and are just fine being alone with pets because like this is it like my cat is too. Like if I could probably pick up my cat like a baby and hold around. I would probably be better off. But she's not that way. That's fine. But that was it was like a lightbulb just like oh, this is it was just I wish I could convey how great about how funny of a moment it was really like Yeah, but surprisingly, she has not really helped me too much. Because she's just cat she's not a person is definitely nice is I definitely appreciate that I can pet her more. I appreciate the closeness of her and like don't get me wrong, there's definitely like, Thank you for growing closer. You used to be afraid to be out and seen, but now like she's just chillin on my couch and I can go up to her and she'll just be like, like I used to be right like the start started quarantine she's laying down and you like sit next to her she goes right and now like she's laying down I can sit down and she'll just you know chill chills and if you pet her you may even like, like stand up and be like, pet this side pet this side you know, but it just does not compare to humans such unfortunately for this particular, at least.

Kit Heintzman 2:13:53
How are you feeling about the immediate future?

Khalyle Hagood 2:13:56
Um right now in this moment, I'm feeling positively because the vaccines are rolling out. I feel like I have grown up man it's a little chilly my room I can tell when things are chilly because when I start doing a thing with stuffs in my nose so I apologize. I’m feeling in one sense a bit better. Because of the growth that I've had, and like as a person to get back in the world and to be like, Alright, I have more empathy is leveled up. My being a friend is leveled up. Let's get it started. Let's go back the shows because even because also it's not even because also the thing about the summer is just even if like not everyone had a vaccine outside shows like last summer I played a generator show in a park. was just was great everyone is on picnic blanket spread all the way out, we're just really fucking loud. And we got a PA and no permit, so hopefully we don't get in trouble. And we didnt, thankfully and we're just playing in the park. So it's just like warmer weather, more sunlight, the vaccines are rolling out. Fucking some video games I'm excited about are coming out. Just there's just a lot of cool things that seem to be in the future on one on the other hand, like, I know this is now this is like, I also know that like, there's some there's not to be an edgy team, but there's like some darkness there. Like I engage in music differently. I'm mostly a bass player to most of my bands, and I was pretty much too sad to play bass, most of this quarantine. And now I have to like, get back in the saddle. And it's gonna be a fucking thing. And I a lot of my and I know, a lot of my self worth is in how I play bass. So that's going to be not fun. Some of my relationships changed over COVID my parents, I guess I could say this because they already they should know is just like, I used to call my parents a lot. And I can't remember exactly what happened. But there was just a moment where I really felt like they just to be evil, emo teenager just did not get me and so I stopped calling them and I don't answer the phone anymore. Unless it's like a big deal. Like, I'll answer the phone. If my mom calls. I don't answer it. And my brother messages me and says, Hey, you should talk to mom because it's important. And I'll answer your call. And like, you know, and like now it's easy to like, not really think about it. But it's been sad that part of it is really not because necessarily anything was was done. But like I self reflected and realize that like, some of my relationships don't nourish me. And surprisingly, that is one that is lacking in certain ways. And it became much more apparent than like, I didn't have a chance to see them in person and like it's like, oh, man, I knows but there's a I'm literally getting sick in real time. Getting a cold in real time, but there is a how do I say it. So like, the way there's more than one way to be with somebody, you can kind of like everyone is not perfect and everything and you can just kind of ignore certain certain faults for certain great things and having to not see my parents really like, was like, wow, I don't feel good. When I call them specifically, I'm only gonna say this because I've had this conversation with her. And it's just maybe a shock. If she sees this that it hasn't changed specifically my mother is just like, I don't really feel a good familial bond talking with her. So like that's changed and then some of my interpersonal relationships in my bands have changed what else I'm also like, had to think about what am I doing because as work got harder for me there were became a very real fear that I could get fired. And I have a weird thing I'm going to therapy for awards like I am just built a certain way that's very not helpful and not healthy. What would I say due to how I'm built in my past, I don't like to try things that I, that I can fail at because for me there's nothing worse than trying at something your best and not getting it like that is just like that is that is I use that as a shield to protect me from so many things. And being in quarantine has really like hadn't had as making me in the threat of losing my job while also temporarily having a therapist to talk about that it's just gone left me with a lot of time to be like, I got to figure that shit out. And like so like on top of all those things I told you I am looking forward to what I'm not looking forward to like like, I guess knowing when Knowing that about myself and like great, I have to, like live in this world knowing that that I have like a. It's like, like, the reason why I dropped out of college is like a huge reason why I dropped out of college is stems from that is because it's just like, because I wasn't doing well. And it's just like, it just it would eat me up, it would like, I was being dramatic. So I don't know how true this was, especially if I'm not in the emotional space when I said this to my therapist, but I was just like, I told my therapist, and this is why and this is how I feel. I guess this is the capture everything, everything's valid, but like, I told my therapist that. And this was a few this was like, the same day, she told me that she was quitting. That if I try my best at something, and it doesn't go my way. I'm gonna feel like the universe owes me letting me destroy something else completely. In some way, shape, or form. It could be my own things, right? And I'm not even disruptive person. Like, I've never like, like I the last time I broke a controller on a video game was like 2005, right. And even then I was like, Holy shit, controllers are expensive. I can't do that again. But like, that's like, that was again, I was an emotional high. But like, that would be the unfiltered. I don't know if it's the end of the ego. But like, that is my gut reaction to just like, oh, that didn't go my way. Like something's breaking, something's being destroyed, something is being ruined. And so I'm apprehensive about the future. Because I know that I'm that way. And I've had a lot of time to be sad and think about how I'm that way and like, and it didn't get better. So it was just like, so there's apprehension, there's just like, not gonna say it's new to me. But also, I may loose my job. So it's like, I know, it's looming over a potential future of mine. And you may ask, Khalyle, why don't you just do your job, but it's just also like, the sadness of being so isolated, not having touch being in the cold. You know, even a little bit of my, my, my therapist quitting, I'm not mad at her for my therapist quitting, like, not feeling up to playing bass and not really having the joy of playing bass. Like, there's no like, I didn't even do music. I did music. Like, I've probably been on like 12345 like six or seven different, Oh, my God, I cannot believe I'm getting sick real time. Six or seven different, like Song releases Over, over, like the last like eight months? Yeah. But it wasn't like a same wasn't it feel like it normally felt because of the isolation. So I don't know. I'm just so pretty much I was sad for a very long time. And it may be apprehensive about the future.

Kit Heintzman 2:23:16
Um, what are some of your desires for a longer term future?

Khalyle Hagood 2:23:25
How open it is, this question is just really open ended?

Kit Heintzman 2:23:27
Yeah. Open ended by design.

Khalyle Hagood 2:23:31
Cool. Um, well, I desire more. I mean, so I'm going to try to skip over some of the things that I've already mentioned that are problematic about our society at large. We live in a society or society at large and about what sucks about it. Obviously, I want those to change. But I guess at length I want I want to purse I want to just personally short look, sort my shit out and get back on the reins of life. I really am hoping that at some point, preferably before COVID That I can like before, like COVID is completely over. Okay, this is a selfish wish, because I do wish covid was over for the people who are suffering for it. But if I'm going to be a bit selfish, I'm really enjoying the whole I don't have to be a whole human being right now thing. And I really hope there's a point between now and things going back to normal where I can just really put things together and to just be excited about the future completely and not have these apprehensions about, you know, what is my nature mean for what I'm going to do I want to like I want to also want to, I want everyone that I know. To really learn from this time that we had isolated to live Like to be better to each other. I want my upstairs neighbor to finally I want COVID to be over. So hopefully one of them they just leave and like, you know now there's no there's no friction about them leaving, you know, there's no housing insecurity about one of them leaving. I want I want to show, you know, I'm afraid of flying. Like, it truly scares me to death. But like, I'm really would like to eventually go fly to Europe and play music they're in like, go fly to see my brother in states away. You know, I've met some odd man, I can't relate to talk about any of my online friends I've made like, like, like about like, a year or two before COVID. Like, made some online friends and like about Steven Universe, and like a bunch of different age people all over, I even met some of them. I went on my first tour, and I met some of them. And then like everyone was like, yeah, maybe we can meet up and then COVID happened. And it's like, didn't get to see them. So it would be really dope to finally see them to see all of them. Some of them. Oh man, one of them his name. His screen name is Titan. And he's dating someone whose screen name is Fim. Fim is from California, which I've met and met her when I was dropped my brother off. So cool. And then but I haven't met Titan, Titan is from Australia. So it's like, I can't go. So I would never fly to Australia unless I was like playing a show. But he wants to come to the States. Because he you know, he fell in love with his girlfriend and he applied to his girlfriend's college. And then the COVID happened. So he is taking online classes in Australia at a California institution. And like we wouldn't see him that often in our chats. But he now has to be up at god awful times local time to be in these virtual classrooms. And I would like I would like for him to come to California, so that I can go to California and meet him post COVID I'm looking forward. So like seeing all my friends. Last time I was in New York, the one guy from the group. His name is mez. He's an awesome dude. And like I think his job called him in on the night that I played a show in New York, so I didn't get to see him like, maybe next time. COVID Um, you know, there's my brother, I haven't seen my older brother, and like so fucking long. He's the one who got out of prison. So like, in addition to being in prison for so long, he got out into COVID. So I can't go see him in Texas. I want to go see him. And then also my internet friend that also lives in Texas, but I also realized Texas is super fucking large. So it's like, it's not an easy thing. I want to go see him. I haven't seen my grandma who got the vaccine, but I want to go see her. Like, I want to go see a lot of people. You know, I definitely, I've learned not to blame myself that I fallen off from some relationships because it's just like things get me down. So these people just gonna have to accept that I was a sad buck for like fucking months on end. But like, I'm really ready to like, throw out and go also like, some of my bands are new, like the Bussy Kween band that you found us on and my electronic band. Those are my new bands who are just starting playing shows and it Oh, covid. So like, you ain't got any. Like we haven't had a chance to really play out electronic band has played one show. Like Bussy Crew is coming together. Some of my bands, the larger band that I'm in with the singer of Bussy Kween, we had to release our album in COVID. I want an album show. I want us to go live and play all those songs. Cuz we also have friends on the album. So like, I want them to perform live with us because like I said in a status once as a joke, and not a lot of people pay attention to me on a line, which is how I like and I was like, every band that released an album in quarantine deserves an album release show from the community. No questions asked. And like a bunch of people were just like, yes, yes, please do it. So I'm really ready for like, the future. I'm hoping that like we get to a point where it's just like week after week of just all these cool shows. I'm also hoping that we take this as a lesson to increase the price of DIY shows is really hard because one of the points of DIY is that no one's trying to make a profit. But then like, a bunch of these people are like, I mean, not everyone, okay, this is this is a contentious thing where it's like how DIY Are you because I don't really consider myself that DIY because I have a full time job and benefits but there's people who are just like, I'm gonna maybe get a job next week and host the show in my basement and hopefully that'll come together to pay like those people are really out here. It's just like after COVID shat on musicians and the artists in general you know, like We still want people to release things, but we're not going to help them. We should definitely pay them more money. You know, I'm really, yeah, I'm also ready to just to just be more open about the types of people that I see. If you catch my drift, I'm pretty sure I'm pansexual and I'm ready to, to get to there and see what that's all about. I'm very ready to like, and, yeah, I'm also just kind of looking forward to reestablishing some of the relationships that I let go for quarantine. You know, um, yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to that. But yeah, I want to have I want to travel, hopefully, by rail, or car and not plane to a lot of these places and see people. One of the things I'm looking forward to like, some of these bands first albums, because some of them like didn't have albums. I'm looking forward to like, I don't know, maybe getting my life together and doing some shit. I'm looking forward to seeing my dad you know I just said, my mom, my dad, like, just thinking about last week, just actually, I say last week, every Friday this week, we're thinking about like, one of my favorite memories in life is just time favorite things period, is just when I'm in the bathroom, and my dad's cutting my hair. Now I'm going bald, so and I, I will say one thing, the first thing I did for the first time over quarantine was go bald, so that's fun, but like, I'm really excited to still even I'm going to, like cut my hair still bald, I would definitely if I knew I was gonna see my dad, I'm gonna let my hair grow. So he can cut it for me. And, yeah.

Kit Heintzman 2:31:56
Self Care has been a really big part of the 2020, 2021 narrative. And I'm wondering if there are ways that you've been able to take care of yourself that you'd be willing to share here?

Khalyle Hagood 2:32:15
Um, got a therapist. So I was still in the learning. I was still like learning the therapist went over. Um, I haven't really like my self care. Isn't I've not been treating myself well. So let's see, what are the self care things? Um, I will say that while I work, sometimes I will just get up. Because my cat like my cat. It's like clockwork, I go. Besides what I told you before, normally my cat sleeps out in the living room I see from my bed and then I get up for work and my cat gets up from the couch and sleeps in my bed. So sometimes I will get up from my job. And just pet my cat. Excuse me, I didn't do that at first, but like probably about halfway through this thing. I was definitely just like, I just I'm not going to look at my job right now. I'm going to pet my cat and that's just what I'm doing right now. That will probably be a little bit self care. It wasn't like the strongest thing but it was definitely I was doing explicitly for me and putting like things on pause self care. And I did not really treat I've not really cheated myself well. I was definitely like, Oh man, I get to like watch a bunch of television I did not watch a lot of television because it just felt I would feel very anxious or not anxious but like I couldn't even do it was just like I wasn't being productive enough. I was watching television starting to starting to not be that way but definitely the self care self care some things that I decided to do for myself. I did buy some clothes. I normally don't care about clothes like a lot of clothes I wear our clothes and my parents bought me and they still fit and they don't look like garbage and so that's why I wear them it's very much not part of my identity of what my clothes the point like that's gonna get into baggage but it's not part of my identity. So much of what I look like as long as I don't look like a mess but over quarantine I finally bought like some clothes explicitly to feel good in because I'm probably wont wear them out because they are various things and well what are some of them out there very feminine style clothes. I haven't had to wear some of them because my band fantasy queen is definitely pleased with things like that. So I did buy some booty shorts I'm gonna wear out at my next gig but like but like things that I've just like this is for me. No The world may never see this but I'm gonna like this and I'm going to I'm going to wear them. I bought I would say that I probably bought I used to I used to pretty much only buy video games are on sale, but I've been more like well you're not really doing anything else. You can pay a little bit more for them. Pretty much I just kind of like took a bunch of, of like, I don't know what to call it just places where I was and like, interested out a little bit to be like, because like, for example, I don't dress for people, I still continue not just for people, but maybe I can have a few pieces that I like. And then it's like, I don't spend a lot of money on videos and maybe I could spend a little bit more because I can go on to the movies. Also streaming services I was even I don't watch them. It was still like a big deal for me to be like, alright, alright, Khalyle like you don't have any other entertainment like like treat yourself just by his by it and treat yourself and I bought it and I don't watch it. But I have it. It's there. I treated myself to the pizzas as self care to be like, the sick knowledge that like, I feel like shit, I don't want to cook, I'm just going to have pizza. Because I used to cook like, I also eat a lot of the I eat a lot of the same food and pretty much would eat like, Rice, California medly vegetables, chicken, and sometimes chili. And that's kind of all I really ate. And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna start buying more pizza. I'm gonna start buying a lot more pizza and ravioli and I started buying more things for me. And I guess I started off being not wanting to really say or saying like, I didn't do a lot of self care things. I think it's because they were all small gestures. They didn't really like a mountain. There's never really a moment where I was just kind of like, Ah, it's finally off of the I can't believe I did that like the way because I have a friend who goes to a spa, she has a whole spa that she could. She's just like, Yes, I'm free of the shackles of like my show. I never had that moment with these little things. But But I did realize that yeah, I definitely like just push myself a little bit further in some aspects of my life and attempts to be like, well, you deserve something. You know, I should have done more. But I did a little. Yes.

Kit Heintzman 2:36:58
This is my second last question. And it's a little odd. So we know we're in this moment of a flurry of biomedical and scientific research. I'm wondering what kind of research you think people in the humanities and social sciences could be doing right now o help us understand this moment?

Khalyle Hagood 2:37:21
I don’t have any really good answers, I will say that I found out due to the unfortunate events in Atlanta, that um, sometimes sex workers aren't registered as people who are killed in certain police precincts in the world. I mean, police reform of police abolish hopefully police reform of course, like I guess in terms of social study is attended, I guess it is social study, the statistics of people humanities, right, I guess like we should start counting all humans as humans, that seems like an important thing to look at. Otherwise, I don't really know. It's hard for me to say I was a computer science guy in college. Like, I definitely have felt. Man, I don't know, I really don't. What can be studied better? So it's hard to say, because there's been a lot of times where were you know, what my answer is, we need to study more about why people are keep their fucking heads in the ground about shit. You know, like, because I was gonna say, like, recently, just like, I just, I really want to know, like, so much more about why Americans think the way they do. I don't know, that's humanities. But it's just, I was telling you about nuances before. And it just, I mean, I was gonna say we need to study, get data to be more nuanced. So there probably is, but I realized that I can't really think of, personally any data that's probably not already out there. We just need I want to study why people are wrong about things. And I mean, there's been studies about that, but I want to like, I don't know, I want to like really hammer home, especially after recent years. And I want to know more about why people are awful. Um, because I have my whole kumbaya learn to treat your neighbor well, but like, no, let's let's do some deep learning on that. And I'm, and I really want to emphasize that I don't know much about science and humanities. So maybe that's out there. And maybe it maybe it is out there and I just happen to be so fortunate to just intrinsically know that there's a problem there that should be improved. And, and it is out there and there's just like, you know, I don't know, so it's hard to say, but there's definitely like I guess I don't know if I was to study like in terms of scientists learning new thing, but definitely, you just need to get more people to fucking study. Like, fucking previous immigration acts. And like concentration camps and be like, Hey, we've been offered a lot of people for a long time and are in fucking history like, You should talk more about it. Yeah, otherwise, I don't know, I guess maybe to be more honest enough. Yeah, I guess my angle is more so like people should. Like, I'm sure there are things out there that people should just have the curriculum reinforce that learning before they get to my age and out of school and don't wanna learn shit.

Kit Heintzman 2:40:30
And this was my last question. So this is an oral history interview. And I carry with that some assumptions as a trained historian. And one of them is that one of the things my generation of historians is taught to value is that what my historical actors think are important, are important. Like my actors define what is important for a moment. And I'm wondering if you could speak to a historian 50, 100, couple 100 years in the future, what you would want them to know is important and what kinds of stories you don't want, you want to be sure don't get lost?

Khalyle Hagood 2:41:15
Um, besides the big bingos, like, the protests, for black lives, I want black lives matter, to really be looked at and not like, not treated like the Panthers and just be like, in like Malcolm X, and be like, Martin Luther King was a good guy, Malcolm X, and the Panthers and everyone else was, you know, the bad people, I definitely want the nuance to be there, like, people, the nuance again, people don't recognize that, like Black Lives Matter. It's kind of like Antifa, where it's just like, there is it's different than Antifa that there is no like Antifa group, and there is a Black Lives Matter group. But like, they need to understand that like Black Lives Matter, the group and Black Lives Matter, the movements are generally moving to the same direction, but aren't really exactly the same. Some, sometimes the values don't really line up, it's hard. You know, like Antifa is kind of easy. Stop fascism, but Black Lives Matter. Like some people have different ways of valuing how black lives matter. So I would want that to continue to be important. Also, just pretty much how white patriarchal imperialism shits on everyone. And I mean, everyone is important, because like, I've talked to, like, I've talked to like, you know, it affects everyone. Like, I don't want to be patronizing. But like, you know, sometimes women can complain about men and heteronormative situation isn't a good thing to complain for men. And it's just like, man, Why don't men share that feeling? It's like, because patriarchy is awful. And it's just like, why don't women get paid as much because patriarchy is awful. Like, it affects even like, even affects, like, white patriarchal imperialism, just even, etcetera. Capitalism affects even the people who are benefiting from the system, it makes everyone smaller than what they could be. And that's, I don't, and I want that, to really also be there, like, like, I don't want to have to explain to someone like, like, I also don't want white privilege to really be nuanced as well. People, I've had a conversation, or someone's just like, they're like, well, this middle class black family is doing so well but look at this white family and trailer park, I'm just like, you need to compare the white family in the trailer park to the black family that's in the same trailer park and with the same opportunities and drinking the same poison water from government, like, I want more studies to make it clear that they're on the same level when they're looking at things. Maybe they are. And maybe people are just interested in data because I really only get things that I want people to, but when I say so back to like, to emphasize how everyone's getting shit on, you know, Asian people. Everyone's getting shit on that like, like, the whole like, I'm having a bad day. Oh, he's just having a bad day. He's just about No, he's fucking racist. Like, that needs to not be lost. Like someone who's writing history needs to be like, the cop said he was having a bad day, but he was being fucking racist. And I know that may be hard because that's putting a judgement value on things that wasn't explicitly said and as a historian. And it kind of like watching it, but at least you can see from my point of view that I think that is important to emphasize that home. They need to like, and it was just that let's look at the fucking how Mexicans and Latinos have been treated and I'm really bad because I'm also interested in the future. I'm pretty sure it's gonna fall into LatinE with an E on the end and not LatinX, though all my friends that I know personally speak Spanish, say LatinX, but I know on the internet they say LatinX. And I'm not going to make a judgement either way, I'm just gonna say whatever the person probably chose to say, but I'm interested to see, I'm interested, I want to see the acceptance and exploration of gender and gendered languages like Spanish in the future. That's something that's interesting, but I'm really on the phrase, like the person that I played for last summer, he's in that mix, and I can kind of, I get some of it from being his friend, and I want to I would like, see historians care about that. But also, like, just like, I really want someone to really hammer home how much having an administration that was just very obviously sexist and obviously racism in it and obviously just anti poor people. And to like, do numbers on everything that that could have affected right? On everything because like fucking fucking just like, it was so much. Like, I really wish because because like, because part of the problem was like, because part of the people who stormed the Capitol were poor whites who felt that the government failed them and it's just kind of like that's what we would say even failing us to let's let's stop probably stop calling us N word and maybe we can come together like I want I want to like just a universal across the board. Everybody's getting shit on in History like look at these studies look at and look at these people's stories and how the true point through all of them is a big people are shitting on a little people and then turning No, no, no, it's not as it says the black guy. It's it's, it's the Chinese people, Asian people, it's the Mexican who's stealing your jobs like I really want. I want the historical narratives really reflect that, like, what was going on was just that a bunch of all the people getting shot over just being turned around. I like to think that that's the ordering. I like to think that in their heart of hearts, like, like, if they knew what's real, like people wouldn't be racist, misogynist, etc. I know some people aren't salvageable, but it's less that they were born bad, but they returned bed and got poisoned so much. I will also like to, oddly enough, um, fucking to hear about some of these big tech mergers, Disney getting Star Wars and all these people like this very monopoly-ish. And like, I you wouldn't really hear about this outside of like, if you went to like, I don't know, maybe Cal Arts and study cartoons and how to make movies and things like that. But like, it just seems very fishy. And I hope that like, people really look into like, how that affected people how the merger, and the Oh, and also how COVID affects so many things. COVID COVID specifically got a movie studio slash movie I was looking forward to shut down. The woman who did, who did Shira also did the webcomic pneumonia and the model is getting put into a movie from the studio that was underneath Fox that got bought by Disney. And then when the parks closed, Disney was like, Hey, we're losing money. Let's just close the studio making this movie. And it was this movie that I've been looking forward to. And supposedly it looked amazing to all people who have seen it. And it's just like, I want I want everyone I really want like people to also look into how work has changed. That leads me to how work has changed within your home, right? We have to go to the opposite 40 hours a week, do we do we really and because I am adjacent to I may be using the wrong terminology here. And I don't have time to look at it. But like, like people with disabilities, like look into ableism I look into how and one thing I keep seeing is how everyone like nobody was willing to accommodate someone in a wheelchair who stuck in their home until we couldn't get into the office and now all these people can work from home. But then like I was reading this article, this article that they queried some big firms and are just like, hey, you guys made all these you know, things for people that work at home, they didn't really split with us disability people like you made a lot of affordances and accommodations for these people and work products productivity since it's been like the same. So are you guys going to keep that up? And then people in like, they've started being like, Nah, no, come back to the office. And it's just like, are we just gonna have a swath of people who like due to ableism coming back after [inaudible] should have learned our lesson like going to be forgotten about again, like that's also going to be big deal. And I I know so little about it. I am in a space where so many of my friends aren't disabled in any way or at least in the obvious way. So it's like, I'm speaking from like, ignorance. I know. I know something and that should be definitely looked at by somebody. How that affects you. should also be looked at. And what else just really up and down the board, it really was such a pervasive thing altogether. Just that's kind of sums it up. There's all these affordances that we made. Look into what we learned from it, what we and what do we didn't learn from it, you know, like, man. Also, here's a fun one that has kind of nothing to do with COVID. So much is like parasocial relationships. There's nothing really new kind of like groupies. But the internet has really made it odd. Especially being inside and the explosion of streaming from just already being big to now everyone's inside. Now everyone's watching streaming to like, imagining this YouTube stars is your friends, that is interesting. And I wonder how that's going to shake what people think about relationships, real interpersonal relationships with people that no one person has a future, that would be interesting.

Khalyle Hagood 2:50:58
I see. That's something that I see a lot. Being friends of the jerk, be friends, being followers of the journal people that my friend is actual friends with. And like, they talk about that. Also, something else that should be hooked in to is here's the good thing about propaganda, a really fun propaganda case is coming up. Is that now I say propaganda is that the six days in Fallujah game is back if you're familiar with it. So back in during the height of the Iraq War, a company was gonna make a game six days in Fallujah about the time six days in Fallujah the United States was in Fallujah, like and they did a bunch of fucking war crimes and like white phosphorus shit. And like, it's a very nuanced, complicated blight on American history where Americans were the bad guys. And that game back then got canceled, because they were like, everyone's just like, alright, we're in the middle of everyone being pro war, because we're the wars and release, you're gonna make it pro American, right? And then the developers are like, no, like, we were the bad guys. We're gonna make it like that. And so they got cancelled because they were going to be to to the surface. Well, earlier this year, it got announced again, and I got excited. I'm like, Are we finally far enough removed to have a nuanced video game, which is already a controversial thing about having a playable recent atrocity? But are we going to, like just gonna move gaming forward, which, on one hand, seems ridiculous to save another hand gaming makes more money than like, Hollywood, which is kind of absurd to think about, because most people's frame of reference is like, oh, Avengers made all this money. It's like, no, gaming makes so much more money. But um, and I'm thinking, Oh, it's gonna come back. No, they went the opposite way. They're gonna like, we're gonna like, we're going to, we're going to make the I think it was Iraq. I don't know, where Fellujah is the local people, less human, we're going to do all these things, we'll make this a political game, we're not going to have commentary, the United States are going to be the good guys. And this is gonna be a very interesting conversation about modern propaganda, about crossing over the mainstream because there's always been army video games, like America's Army was a free game that I played growing up to advertise going into the army. But that was still out there. But military propaganda games were always kind of in their own little bubble. And six days in Fallujah is trying to jump into the AAA on the television, during the football game advertisement, Kennel world, so that's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be like a good like, it's also gamers aren't in bed at nuance, it's going to be one of those things where it's like, what is art? What should allow it to be what is allowed to be art and not art what is allowed to be covered by video games and video games art, which is an awful, awful conversation. Videogames are art and not all art has to be deep, but like, but now we're going to have this propaganda piece and it's going to be a thing and I mean, even propaganda, like deserves to exist, but but I don't think they're going to do the due diligence to say, Hey, we are intentionally misrepresenting what happened because the propaganda doesn't do that. So this is going to be an interesting conversation that I think it's going to probably be how long game? I think it comes out by the end of the year. That's gonna be an interesting one. It's already, it’s already awful, you know. And also an inter inter incident, an interesting one is going to be cryptography. NFT's and computer parts of the weird tech world is being very weird. We got NF T's are people using cryptography to pretty much instead of making bitcoins they make like official certifications about who owns art online, but because they use the cryptography way. They're just creating all this pollution and all these computers, I found out that you can actually make Bitcoin without polluting the environment, it's just polluting the environment. It's just the most the best efficient way to make it, which of course it is, because that's how capitalism works. But um, so there's that and NF T's. And like, that's going to be an interesting social thing, because it's like, a bunch of artists want to make NFT art because nobody pays artists and they want to be paid and they should be paid. And so they see NF T's and like, oh, great, I can be paid. And then it's like, and then like, all of a sudden, the moral police, which they're not wrong for saying this, but the moral police are like, but destroys the environment that was just like, Oh, God, no one wants to pay artists and if we want to get paid, we're gonna destroy the it's just this part is but like, the cryptography is also driven up the prices of like, GPUs and just other computer parts. Like, there's going to be I think it'd be interesting, because it's part of me is, being in tech, being computer science major, when I was in school is going to interesting to hear about how like, oh, yeah, and like 2019 and 2020, because everyone was buying GPU to farm Bitcoin and cryptography. Prices would have added this mind the $700 GPU you want to buy, it's $1,400. Now, like, that's gonna be I think that's gonna be interesting, partially because of how important gaming is a sleeper die. But just like other things like tech companies make more than graphics cards, right? They also make other parts of it ripples through the tech world. There's this, there's a few interesting things going on. I would like to see. And streaming. One, I guess one probably last thing is streaming is getting interesting. I would like to hear about in the future, from historians about public opinion and relationship with streaming, and how that's changed. Making movies and like making art and things like that, which is obviously is a very narrow and mountainous like, art. I guess it's art history, but like to know, like, how the world is changing how the art, you know, like, art history would study like the greats, but now the greats are coming from Netflix, and they're getting recognized and the Oscars and things and like, it's also kind of breaking open, I feel like there's almost, in a way, kind of like how music had a revolution, where it went from. I was watching the synthesizer woman, I think her name is Susan Siani, or something like that. She's famous for using the booklet and she's been making sense music since like the 70s really awesome. She was like, when I was growing up. Coming up as a musician, if you want it to make music, you had to find a rich white man with a studio. And you had to appease him. And then he let you studio music. And I feel like there's an interesting art history, I think there's another shift about who gets to be artists, it's going to happen more and more with streaming and being able to in diversity being open up towards this, like it's no longer the fat cats in Hollywood, it's the fat cats at Netflix, who specifically have like, they have a Twitter account called strong black lead, which is just post all of Netflix, strong black, anything that has a lead black person in it. Netflix also has most which is all their LGBT content, Twitter that posts all that they have NX Netflix, which does all their sci fi stuff, those are ones that I follow. So it's gonna be interesting how like, companies that are explicitly for, for diversity in that start having more and more say, look, it's made and things like that. bridgerton Hello. I have a fun fact about them. We can talk about bridgerton. You know, it's like, can you get more representation like how's representation changing from or the glacial change of representation because it's still happening. An interesting thing that I've noticed with my nose again, while this is still on the same topic, and it's still my last topic. But there's been a real uptick in LGBT content in cartoons, video games, which is what I watched. But there still hasn't really been very prominent gay men main characters who are like the lead there's been lesbians, especially all the shows Shira lesbian couple. The owl house is a bisexual lesbian woman couple of fucking one of the shows have been fucking watching marsali and Princess Bubblegum was a big deal. Now the whole contract. It was interesting to see at the beginning how that was controversial. And then in the finale, they were like, No, we're gonna do it. And then they made an extra show where it's like, this whole extra thing is about how they're together. I'm really interested to see about how patriarchy is is going to is fucking with that because there's not a lot of good gay people who are there's not a lot of gay men who are in the forefront of it. In video games. We had the last of us with Ellie, she's canonically a lesbian is very much a lesbian, and she's the main character Last of Us too, but there's no like this is a gay man character. They're never they're never like the leads and bigging and big games, I always feel like I think it's part of this the patriarchy because two women being together is not as offensive as two men being together in this weird. I mean, there's some improvements, like there's games where you can pick multiple characters, and one of them is gay like soldier 76, and Overwatch, and there's some shows like Keepo. One of these, one of the main characters is a gay male who gets a boyfriend. But also, and I don't think it was malicious. I think it was due to time the boyfriend spends the first season is introduced mostly off screen because he's been kidnapped by the bad guy. And then he spends the second and final one, the second season, he's in there. And the final one in the series, mostly off screen, because the main the lead that we're used to is just doing hero shit. And it's just there's no any he's not the main character. So there's just no time. So there's times where it's just like Benson is like, oh, man, we have to save Troy because I have a crush on him and then they date. And it's like, Oh, hey, main character, people.

Khalyle Hagood 3:00:57
I'm gonna go hang on my boyfriend. But we're following keto. So you don't see Benson and then be gay and do crime. So you know this. So I just think that's interesting. These are all these little things that like, I've got my mind in the back of my mind. And I'm, I'm watching them move around. But it would be cool to in a few years, just read like a nice little art history or social history thinking stuff. Like, all these things that I thought about was going on. Nope. This is where it came from. That'll be cool. And I think, yeah, that is.

Kit Heintzman 3:01:31
Thank you so much for everything that you shared with me here today. And at this point, I just want to invite you that if there are things you want to say that my questions haven't given you the space to say, here is the space for you to do so.

Khalyle Hagood 3:01:46
Oh, well, about history. I don't really talk about myself too much. So I'll make a quick I mentioned military kid, well off, parents pulls up by the bootstraps, I got radicalized in college, and whenever I saw their shit go down, and I now look kind of comfortably. I'm not really middle class, because I live with myself. I don't have anybody I am very comfortable about when I was used to growing up and having to roll, working and well off parents. I'm not really in my community of Chicago. So while I can observe I’m not immersed in it, and I'm just constantly trying to do better and learn more, and I'm on the outskirts of things to try to learn better. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 3:02:32
Thank you so much.

Khalyle Hagood
Thank you.