Item
Jeff DeGrave Oral History, 2020/05/06
Media
Title (Dublin Core)
Jeff DeGrave Oral History, 2020/05/06
Description (Dublin Core)
Chippewa Valley COVID-19 Archive
Recording Date (Dublin Core)
05/06/2020
Creator (Dublin Core)
Jeff DeGrave
Glenn Walbourn
Partner (Dublin Core)
University of Wisconsin Eau Claire
Controlled Vocabulary (Dublin Core)
English
Education--Universities
English
Health & Wellness
English
Social Distance
English
Technology
Curator's Tags (Omeka Classic)
college
social distancing
vacancy
change
travel
trip
policy
science
Collection (Dublin Core)
College COVID Stories
Date Submitted (Dublin Core)
07/14/2020
Date Modified (Dublin Core)
10/21/2020
02/23/2021
03/08/2021
05/01/2021
05/02/2021
09/21/2021
06/18/2022
Date Created (Dublin Core)
05/06/2020
Interviewer (Bibliographic Ontology)
Glenn Walborn
Interviewee (Bibliographic Ontology)
Jeff DeGrave
Location (Omeka Classic)
54701
Eau Claire
Wisconsin
United States
Format (Dublin Core)
Video
Audio
Language (Dublin Core)
English
Duration (Omeka Classic)
00:37:47
abstract (Bibliographic Ontology)
The interviewee addresses challenges of the pandemic and working on a university campus. He discusses programs being cut such as international immersions and domestic immersions and how students lost fully funded research opportunities. Next he described how the covid virus was an example of globalization and that maybe a lot of Americans had not fully appreciated globalization prior to the pandemic spread as they feel safe with the vast ocean boarders the US has. Then he spoke about how he felt the university did a good job with reacting to the pandemic and that the local and state governments also did a good job. He expresses that the federal government could have done better to stop misinformation and other information that was pushed out for political interests. Finally, he ended with the thought that he hopes science will prevail and that opinions will not be what people make decisions from.
Transcription (Omeka Classic)
Glenn Walbourn 00:03
Okay, recording. So let's start with how the pandemic has been affecting your life. Actually, before we do that, why don't we do, can you just state what your name is and what your title and office is?
Jeff DeGrave 00:17
Okay, my name is Jeff DeGrave. I am the intercultural immersions coordinator, as well as a senior lecturer in geography and anthropology and Latin American Studies.
Glenn Walbourn 00:31
All right, so let's start just on a small level. So how is the pandemic just affected your own life, so daily life?
Jeff DeGrave 00:38
I don't, I don't go to work anymore. I work from home, learn lots of new technologies for virtual communication, some better than others. I don't see people anymore other than in a virtual setting. So it's sort of strange to not have person to person contact other than with my wife and dog. It also affected my work that we had to cancel all of our spring and summer immersion programs. Hopefully, we'll get a few more in the, in the winter, and we'll see how that goes. But those are probably the biggest changes since the COVID-19 broke.
Glenn Walbourn 01:24
What is it like for you and your colleagues to work from home?
Jeff DeGrave 01:29
Okay, it's got its pros and cons, I guess, you know, you don't, you don't have to be anywhere for a meeting because all the meetings are in your, your living room, or your bedroom or whatever. So that's helpful. We're learning new technology skills, thinking of different ways to solve problems and person to person. So those are all pros, certainly, the cons are Yeah, not having human contact, there's certain things that are just more time consuming and complicated to do through the virtual world than person to person. We can't like give someone a piece of paper to sign anymore. So if I wasn't many of the documents that I get involved in, require multiple signatures. And that has become more complicated, because you can't just hand the same piece of paper from one person or one department to the next department to the next department, it has to be done very differently. And so all these other systems have to be built to cover that. So yeah, so those are probably among the biggest day to day issues.
Glenn Walbourn 02:35
When was the last time you were allowed to be back at the university?
Jeff DeGrave 02:41
I, I can go to the university anytime, I suppose, because I had a key to Schofield. And sometimes I'll find that I don't have the document the physical documents here at home that I need them from work. So I went in there last week or an hour or two just to take care of things that I couldn't do at home. I live close to campus, so it's not that big a deal. But I don't know that it's that I'm disallowed to go to campus, but they strongly encourage us not to go to campus. But of course, because nobody's on campus. I'm actually around fewer people there than I am at home with my wife and dog. So I guess I don't really think of it as being overly significant either way.
Glenn Walbourn 03:25
We'll just ask about the community in general, like how is it just delivered Eau Claire right now?
Jeff DeGrave 03:29
It's quiet. Not a lot to do. Like the restaurants are basically closed. Bars are closed and in a college town. Those are two huge industries. Students aren't working a lot of them have left town because they don't have any jobs here anymore in the foodservice industry. So it's and the hotels are empty. I mean, it's there's a couple taxis here and there. But as far as the city goes, Yeah, it's really quiet, which is sort of sort of unsettling, but I do see a lot of people out on the bike paths and parks and stuff. So people are getting outside but they're just not spending any money basically. And no entertainment as well, like Pablo center is basically closed as well.
Glenn Walbourn 04:17
So what all has remained open, do you know?
Jeff DeGrave 04:22
Certainly government, government always survives right? Many restaurants and bars have gone to carry out only so you can buy beer to go not in a glass but in a cabin or something or a growler or whatever. So, a lot of the places would that we're sitting down places are now selling things strictly to go or are delivered curbside as they call you pull up in your car and they deliver it out to your car so so a number of places just shut but other places are trying to do the best they can with basically carry out as opposed to fine dining. And any restaurant that does fine dining is probably closed.
Glenn Walbourn 05:07
So switching to the effects on your office, what programs have been have you been working on recently that have been drasticallychanged?
Jeff DeGrave 05:22
Well, that's sort of a strange question for me, because the ones that have changed dramatically have been canceled. So I'm not working on them. So I'm working on them, that means they're not canceled, so then they're therefore there isn't really any change. So all the spring and summer programs are canceled. But now is the time where we have applications open for winter programs. So we're just hoping that winter programs will take place, and we have no idea if they will or won't, but we're going to move forward as if they are and hopefully students will be able to travel again this January.
Glenn Walbourn 06:01
So when do you think you know if Winterim would have to be canceled or not? Of course, this is
Jeff DeGrave 06:09
thats a great question.
Jeff DeGrave 06:10
Right. This probably relates to a question you asked previously is probably the the most difficult parts of my job now are the unknowns of what's going to happen and budget cuts and for example, are our emersions assistant Kim Reed is going to be on furlough for two months this summer, like, not come to work at all for two months. So these are the kinds of impacts that it's having around the the office. So one of the unknowns is maybe they'll want her to stay away for three months, or what happens if we don't open or fall semester and we're still online and fall. How does that impact winter programs? So I, from what I understand, we'll be learning by the latest at around I want to say July 6, or something of this nature, the state of fall classes, hopefully sooner. And then if we open for fall, then we'll have to see how it goes. Just because we're open for Fall doesn't mean it's gonna go well. So ultimately, I probably won't know about winter until at least fall.
Glenn Walbourn 06:10
can't be answered.
Glenn Walbourn 07:22
So there, so there's been announcing for UW System budget cuts and program closures. Do you think your office will be affected by this? You already said something about someone being furloughed?
Jeff DeGrave 07:35
Yeah, so we've already we've already had, well, there's two of us in the office, so half of our offices disappeared in theory. So that's already made impacts. And then if the winter programs get canceled, then that would obviously be a funding cut. Because all those funds that would have gone to winter programs would then, we wouldn't be using them. So they would go back to the university, which is fine. Other than I hope we won't have to cancel those programs. So So yeah, so we're down to one person in the office now. And we have mysteries lurking as to what will happen in the winter. And sooner, because if more budget cuts are coming, then how might that affect, you know, me being the last person in the office?
Glenn Walbourn 08:24
So let's almost go back a step and just say, what were the spring and summer programs that your office usually does that have been canceled?
Jeff DeGrave 08:33
There were about 25 of them.
Glenn Walbourn 08:37
Okay,
Jeff DeGrave 08:39
would you like that list?
Glenn Walbourn 08:40
Um, maybe just some highlights if you don't want to say the entire list.
Jeff DeGrave 08:45
Okay. So one of them was the sets program, for example that you're familiar with, that was canceled. programs to China, which could have would have taken the form of an IFP which international Fellows Program. So it's a research opportunity that students didn't get to do and it was fully funded for these students. So they thought they're going to be spending three or four weeks in China doing research and being fully funded. And now they're going to be home. You know, we're gonna get the golf course or whatever they do. Also, we had an immersion program to China that was cancelled. We also had seven Spring Break domestic immersions program. Programs canceled and those were canceled about a week before spring break. So everything was a go up until the second week of March and then right around St. Patrick's Day is really when sort of the big changes occurred on campus and we close the university and all that so they have programs from across the US as well as international programs, whether they're domestic immersions, international immersions, as well as research immersions. About 25 programs were cancelled between spring and summer. It was also the study abroad office who had to recall all of their students that wasn't my office. But it just gets the layers of complication are so much greater for CIE, the Center for International Education. So as I cancelled them before the students left, whereas their students left in the early part of February, so they had to recall all kinds of students from every, you know, not every country in the world, but dozens and dozens of guys, rather complicated, let's say.
Glenn Walbourn 10:32
So did you have to help them with the recall? Or were they able to handle it on their own?
Jeff DeGrave 10:39
Yeah, they're able to handle it. And it's I offered, but they seem to have it under control, they have a much larger office with many more people than we do so. So I took care of the immersions. And they took care of theirs. But certainly, I had an easier time of it that they did.
Glenn Walbourn 10:54
So what was the progression of the cancellations was it just we'll cancel spring break first, and then see where the summer goes? Or was it kind of all at once?
Jeff DeGrave 11:05
It was a bit of a mixed bag, because some folks soon as they heard about the, the COVID in China, so we had these programs going to China, which was probably first on the global radar, where you would find, you know, incidents of COVID, that China put made their own rules that said, we are not allowing anyone from the United States to come here, unless they're in quarantine for 14 days. And then we the United States had, we're not allowing anybody to leave the US to go to China. So if the two governments say no one's coming, then our programs are ultimately going to be cancelled. So that was sort of the first wave of the dominoes to fall, all programs to China were canceled. And then ultimately, the Coronavirus spread went to Italy, we had a program in Italy, we had to cancel that one. And Germany came and so on and so on. And so it was sort of gradual. For a while. We were hoping in South America where it was a little bit later to make its appearance, the COVID that we could maybe sneak in a program to Argentina, or to Finland and Estonia, which were very low and still are relatively low on the terms of the number of cases. But eventually, it just became, we can't we just the numbers are too high. We've cancelled all these other programs, and there's only like three left. And then, of course, you know, what about students who want to travel? Let's say you go in the Finland program, and you want to travel to Italy after the program? And how can we ensure the safety of students once the program is over? We certainly didn't want them to go to Italy and say, How can you let me go to Europe, I got sick now as a result. So we just said, you know, it's best, it's easiest to cancel it all. And then we eventually, Donald Trump said no more flights in or out of the EU, and then no more flights in or out of Ireland and the UK. That pretty well sealed the deal. So we're following the direction of our national government, state governments, the Univer university system, as well as UW Eau Claire, so it was quite a changing set of rules every single day, depending on who was speaking from which perspective.
Glenn Walbourn 13:18
So let's move on to just the reactions to what your office has done. Was the been the reaction of students to your cancellations? And to, yeah, let's go with that. And I'll ask the second question.
Jeff DeGrave 13:35
Okay, most of its just disappointed disappointment. And by the time most of the programs were canceled, students were already very, very, very aware of what was going on in the world. So when the China programs were canceled, students were quite aware of what was already going on in China. So they're, most of them are like oh, I figured this was coming. And sure enough, you know, where everybody was hopeful that that would resolve itself. And that would be the end of the story. You know, like some some previous disease we've had of West Nile or whatever, they kind of come and go, whereas this one stuck around. And not only that, it started to spread so, so I didn't really have any, I don't think I had one student that emailed me and said, I can't believe you're canceling my program, blah, blah, blah, I did have a number of students that say, I've talked to my folks, and they don't want me to go and I need to withdraw. And we said perfectly fine. That makes 100% total sense. And you will receive 100% refund of the fees you pay because we don't want to put any student in jeopardy. So So I had zero students, whereas faculty are probably, you know, the most disappointed, particularly spring break when it was a week before those programs are supposed to go. And the COVID hadn't really hit the US hard, at least not where most of these programs are going to like can we? We can sneak it in just you know next week like Not gonna happen. So as more of the faculty members was being disappointed, particularly with the spring break programs, and particularly with it was canceling them basically one week before those programs were ready to go.
Glenn Walbourn 15:09
Yeah, because there's at least one spring break program, the Civil Rights pilgrimage going down to the south. So why were programs like that canceled at that point?
Jeff DeGrave 15:20
Basically, because it partly a lot of the, the partners were did not want to be want to participate in the potential spread of disease. Like if we have students coming from the north there in the south, they were some partners saying this is too high of a risk. And we're gonna have to cancel our, our share of the duty. So a lot of programs weren't canceled because of us, but we cancelled them as a result of our partners saying, We can't do this. And so ultimately, we had to react to them. So it was a very quickly moving set of circumstances that we're changing all the time of who, who's going to cancel? What what sort of entity or organization is going to say, you know, we just can't do it. You don't have to cancel your program. But you're not you can't do it with us because we were afraid of the Coronavirus, which was again, totally understandable. So a lot of our our cancellation was mostly reactive to what the world around us was telling us basically.
Glenn Walbourn 16:30
So the second part to my original question is, what was the what is the reaction to students about the future? So applying to winterim next year?
Jeff DeGrave 16:40
Yeah, I mean, I haven't had too many personal conversations with students partly because we're all in the virtual world. So nobody can just sort of, you know, spontaneously step in the office and ask me about programs or get an email or so. But in terms of the number of students who have signed up, or a winter immersion program is no different, perhaps even higher than what we normally get. So I guess you could look at it two ways is this is my opinion, and maybe I'm wrong. One is, people have been, you know, have got Cabin Fever, because they've been cooped up in their house for so long. They're just ready to go anywhere at this point. Or on the other hand, people could be afraid, because Oh, who knows the Coronavirus will still be learning about the world by January, but it seems whatever those you know, the balance between those two is has had zero impact so far on number of students who have registered for winter program.
Glenn Walbourn 17:41
So will there be any choice a preference to those who had already applied for next year? Or is it just going to be just open season again for next year's applications?
Jeff DeGrave 17:53
That's a good question. We haven't really thought about that. But ultimately, actually let me, rephrase that. I know what you mean now. So strike that from the record.
Glenn Walbourn 18:04
All right.
Jeff DeGrave 18:04
Yes, if you were involved in a program this year that was canceled, you're automatically rolled over to the next year. And then we'll sort of fill in the missing pieces. If, if let's say three students graduated this summer, obviously, they can go in the program next year, then we'll say, Hey, we've got three spots open. But yeah, any student that's still around, is they're are already enrolled and accepted and all that and they don't have to reapply. I shouldn't say everyone, some students, many students decided to take a refund, because they didn't know what the world was going to be like a year from now. And so they just withdrew their application got a refund, and would be reapplying next year. So it's a mixed bag.
Glenn Walbourn 18:49
Okay. So then, what has been the reaction of your office staff to what has happened?
Jeff DeGrave 19:00
What do you mean?
Glenn Walbourn 19:01
So, like, how are they processed? And what are they think of what is going on? Between the cancellations and now being having to be furloughed,
Jeff DeGrave 19:14
oh, right, yeah. I mean, it's, it's tough. It all is understandable. I mean, it's a virus that has killed however many, you know, hundreds of 1000s or 10s of 1000s. I don't even know what that number is up to.
Glenn Walbourn 19:28
I just wrote it down beforehand. The total deaths in the world is like over 267,000. And US is now over 75,000. According to Johns Hopkins.
Jeff DeGrave 19:41
Okay. Yeah, that's what I was thinking of the US number particular. But yeah, so for all the 10s of 1000s of people that have, you know, died from this already. And obviously, we don't want to put students at risk. So everybody's trying to do the right thing, but at the same time, by you know, stifling our economy and obviously Reducing the amount of taxes like businesses are paying and sales tax and all that, you know, we are funded by the taxpayer. So it's on one hand, you want to do the right thing. On the other hand, there's going to be repercussions. So, so Kim in my office has been incredible and super understanding. And it's just sort of taken it with a grain of salt. And we'll see how it goes. I mean, I think, well, she and I, and we've had other student interns in the past as well, but haven't seen those folks in a long time. But it's, it's just all about unknown now. And again, that's probably of all things that's probably the most unsettling is the unknown, the financial unknown, whether programs are going to go with winter weather school is going to be opened as normal in the fall, and all these sorts of things. So that's, that's, that's the main cause of stress for sure.
Glenn Walbourn 20:56
And lastly, what is been, what have you heard from the university administration like that they've reacted to anything that you've put forward? Or? Or has all your orders just come from them?
Jeff DeGrave 21:14
Well, actually, I'm on part of the emergency management team, which is includes the Chancellor and a number of other people. So that's, like, get to participate in all these, these meetings where decisions were made of, okay, what are we going to do next. So ultimately, I've had very direct access to the decisions that have been made, and I will give the chancellor great kudos for being very transparent, participatory. And very, very open to suggestions and ideas from everybody I have been very impressed with the leadership the chancellor has, has brought it's been very democratic to I should throw that in there. The decision making process for everything like the close school, or to cancel immersions, or to do whatever, it's all been very, very open. And to me, anyway, very democratic.
Glenn Walbourn 22:17
So like, all those announcements back in March, from the university, you were a part of the team that decided on those things?
Jeff DeGrave 22:26
It's, it's a little different than maybe what I'm describing. But there's a team of I want to say, I forget how many people are on the committee, I dont know, maybe 40, or something like that. And so we were broken off into groups, like facilities was over this group. And housing was in that group and financial aid was in this group. And so all these subgroups worked on their own sort of specialty. And then when the subgroup came up with their thoughts, it was the best way to approach they presented it to everybody, including the chancellor, we all went through all the iterations. And then decisions were made. So. So basically, he the chancellor, instructed those with knowledge and experience in a particular category, to sort of walk and talk through everything. And then based on their experience and knowledge to present that as Okay, here's what we think would be our possible solutions, which ones we think will work best or not, or whatever. And then, you know, they would field questions from everybody else in this sort of thing. So it was very collaborative. And we all work together in our individual groups, the small groups, and then we would expand that out to the bigger groups, including the chancellor,
Glenn Walbourn 23:45
you know, what group were you a part of?
Jeff DeGrave 23:48
International.
Glenn Walbourn 23:49
Okay. So with that, I'm gonna take programs above your office and the CIE.
Jeff DeGrave 23:58
Sorry.
Glenn Walbourn 24:01
So International was your office in the CIE? Like that sort of topic?
Jeff DeGrave 24:06
Yep. And they also had siege, the Council for Global Engagement on campus which arranges lots of international activities. Also, we had a personal health because of traveling and the spread of the virus because that was a global looking at the spread of the virus as a global issue. So we had someone from Student Health Services and risk management I believe, trying to think who else was on our committee but there were about a half dozen of us. irritate.
Glenn Walbourn 24:46
Okay, so now we can just move on to more personal thoughts. So with your experience and background, what is your perspective of the COVID 19 pandemic?
Jeff DeGrave 24:59
It's Welcome to globalization, I guess is one way to think about it that, you know, we often weaving people in the United States, historically speaking, we like to think of ourselves as being away from the rest of the world isolationism, because we have these two oceans on either side of us. And you know, we've had that foreign policy for years and years and years. And certainly, you know, when you think of globalization, maybe we think of clothes or cars or whatever. But disease is maybe the first time in 100 years, that we've thought about disease having a major impact, you know, in talking about the Spanish flu from 1918. And, you know, of course, a year ago, we might have say, Well, that was 1918, of course, the this disease spread, they didn't have all these modern, you know, technologies and inoculations and blah, blah, blah, well, here we are 21st century, it's the same story all over again, to one degree or another as what it was, like in 1918. So. So for me from a global and historical perspective, it's sort of a numbers game that eventually, with enough, you know, variations and mutations of various viruses, sooner or later, there's going to be one that, you know, takes over, you know, a large area and impacts a huge number of people. And so I guess, it's a statistical probability. Of course, we can also look at, you know, our president cutting funding for, you know, the whatever, various, you know, medical groups, like the pandemic Research Institute, or whatever it was called, and the CDC, in Georgia, and so on, and so on. So we can look at it that way as well about, you know, looking at the impacts, you want to cut, funding and save money. That's great. Everybody loves that. But what happens if you've cut too much, then perhaps, maybe we would have found out about this beforehand, and it wouldn't have happened. So I can't say there's a cause and effect, by any means, but certainly does raise the question of what would have happened had we had the proper funding or more funding put into these other organizations whose job it is to be aware of these things, and make the proper corrective action was a coincidence that we defunded these organizations, and then we happen to have an epidemic pandemic shortly thereafter. So a lot of interesting political, spatial and historical questions that sort of, you know, maybe make make us more humble thinking that the 21st century, nothing like the 1918 flu could ever happen again. And here we are across the globe.
Glenn Walbourn 27:42
So I know you've already said this multiple times. But I'll just like kind of ask this question again, just to have it all in one place. What do you think the strengths of the university have been during this crisis?
Jeff DeGrave 27:56
I think that it solution or university has shown great, exceptional leadership, I would say, in dealing with all the unknowns, I mean, there are just so many variables, and there were a lot of variables two months ago, there's still so many variables, right now, when I'm part of these meetings with emergency management team, it's just incredible when you try to think okay, what if what if, what if, what if what if you cannot, you cannot account for all the variables and how those may or may not affect us in a dramatic way. So leadership has been amazing. Technology, the folks who support technology have been, I can't imagine what their jobs had been, like, you know, assisting with everybody, every student and faculty members and staff member on campus with their technology learning curve, we'll put it that way, over the last couple of months. So those folks, the technology and technology people have been amazing. Of course, the students have been amazing and adaptable. I can't even imagine what it's like for someone like yourself to having to switch gears in the middle of the semester to this wacky new online, final semester. So the students have been amazing and very understanding it seems the faculty have done a great job of shifting their courses in the middle of semester. So I would say, the flexibility that everybody has shown and the understanding that nobody This is nobody's fault, as far as we know. That but the understanding like okay, none of us can control this, none of us would wish this. We're all in it together. So a lot of a lot of understanding, kindness, care, flexibility, all those things that make it all all go basically.
Glenn Walbourn 29:41
So do you think there's any mistakes the university has made over the last few months?
Jeff DeGrave 29:46
I'm sure there are and they would probably, you know, say yeah, we made a few mistakes, but there's nothing that really sticks out in my mind that says you really screwed up this time University. I will say, based on today's news, what's going on with the like, why cant I think of it the President of the UW system, is that what he is? the president?
Glenn Walbourn 30:14
are you talking about cross that statement guy, guy in the news. Okay, I'm not sure what his position is. But yes, I did see that.
Jeff DeGrave 30:22
he is the Grand Poobah of UW system. He's like the president of the whole statewide UW system. And today, he made a very interesting announcement. And so I feel like that is an up and coming massive mistake, but that's nothing that our university did. It's the leadership of UW system.
Glenn Walbourn 30:55
Okay, yes, it is UW System President Cross
Jeff DeGrave 30:58
that yeah, so. Yep.
Glenn Walbourn 31:01
Okay. And switch into what do you think the strings from the more national level has been? That you've seen?
Jeff DeGrave 31:10
I think I've seen the strength more in individuals than like, on a federal level, let's just say and on state level as well, like the governor of Michigan, I can't remember her name. But she's been amazing. Even Tony, Tony Evers in Wisconsin has been amazing. The governor of Minnesota has been amazing, which maybe is how it should go that smaller regions and areas should have control over what they think is best for their situation. I mean, like the state of Illinois is interesting, because if you make statewide rules, you know, the situation in Chicago is, is chaos, at least it has been until recently. Whereas the rest of the state, because it's not so densely populated. Very much like Eau Claire, we haven't had any major issues, because we have a lot of the ratio of number of hospitals and doctors and medical facilities, the number of people who live in Eau Claire County is very high relative to any major big city like Detroit, or Philadelphia, or Chicago or Milwaukee, where they have lots of people. And their ability to get seen or treated by a medical person is limited. So I think having a perspective, a global perspective, but having a more regionally or locally focused approach is a good thing. So. So federal, it was great that there was the federal emergency funding for that, that helped students and helping universities and all that, that that was fantastic. However, I will question a lot of the other sort of assessments, judgments and claim by our federal government about the COVID virus that have been never scientifically proven, let's just say,
Glenn Walbourn 32:57
you mentioned the federal funding for students do it, do you know much about that? and it's affect on students?
Jeff DeGrave 33:04
emergency funding for students, if just for whatever reason, you you are, you have no money. A lot of it may relate to your you don't know, you know, the support of your parents or a job or whatever. That money has been made available for students by the federal government. It doesn't go for, you know, to make classes cheaper, it just goes straight to the students. It's, it's, it's just cash, you don't have to pay it back. It's, it's just aid. And so I forget what the chancellor said the other day, but a significant number of students have received some form of aid. Don't quote me on this, even though I know you're quoting me on this, but it's somewhere around I think 1500 uw Claire students have already received and or applied for their aid, but you'll have to ask somebody else about that. Something like that.
Glenn Walbourn 34:01
Okay. I don't think at least for students, that number has been published yet. But
Jeff DeGrave 34:07
this is the care act, really with that?
Glenn Walbourn 34:10
Yeah, I think in our last email we got just today it said more than $3.5 million in money has been allocated.
Jeff DeGrave 34:19
Yep. There you go. That's it
Glenn Walbourn 34:22
[inaudible] Eau Claire students.
Jeff DeGrave 34:23
Yep. And so a fair, fair, a good amount of students have applied for that. And I think many have received already but I, I can't verify that either.
Glenn Walbourn 34:37
All right. So then what do you think the weaknesses of the federal government and the state government has been during this crisis?
Jeff DeGrave 34:48
The federal government there has been a lot of misinformation and information that has not been scientifically supported. Perhaps information that's Been Released for political interests, there's been decisions made. And then those decisions were countered. The next day, I think just today, our president said he wasn't going to dissolve the COVID task force. And yesterday he said he would. I'm not saying he should have stuck with the dissolve that but this is a good example of problematic leadership at a high level. And that was most of those cases are pretty well documented me we sort of know how that goes. Whereas state level goes, I mean, probably depends on which state you're in is a really how it goes from state to state. Some, like Iowa, for example, has, they've never they didn't do the quarantining, and they have among the highest rates of the virus in the country. So they they're an example, in my opinion of a government that maybe didn't do enough. was it South Dakota is also maybe another one of those dates. I'm not 100% sure.
Glenn Walbourn 36:02
Yeah, I don't think they've ever officially closed down.
Jeff DeGrave 36:06
Yeah. So I mean, I would say Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, those three states come to mind right away that have done a good job, in my mind anyway.
Glenn Walbourn 36:19
So just lastly, do you have anything else that you'd like to say, on this issue? Just any random thing you'd like to say or something that you couldn't fully express earlier?
Jeff DeGrave 36:33
Yeah, I'm hopeful that science will, will rule the day, whether that's through a vaccine, or through information that is shared with the public to help everyone make the best decision. But really, I think the bottom line is, we need to depend on science and not intuition, suspicion, you know, or, or extreme thoughts of, what if, what if, what if we can get caught in that sort of rabbit hole. Infinitely almost. But if we rely on science and hopefully science will be is working to find us a vaccination or a cure whatever word you want to use. I think we'll all be better off with the help of science rather than whatever other means of knowledge that have been shared.
Glenn Walbourn 37:25
All right. Well, Dr. Degraves thank you so much for being interviewed today.
Jeff DeGrave 37:31
Hey, thanks for having me. Glad it was great. Great to see you again. And I I'll be interested to see how you know the the end result of your of your study.
Glenn Walbourn 37:39
Yep. Yeah, I think
Jeff DeGrave 37:41
all right.
Glenn Walbourn 37:43
Next few I'll stop recording whereever the button is for that
Okay, recording. So let's start with how the pandemic has been affecting your life. Actually, before we do that, why don't we do, can you just state what your name is and what your title and office is?
Jeff DeGrave 00:17
Okay, my name is Jeff DeGrave. I am the intercultural immersions coordinator, as well as a senior lecturer in geography and anthropology and Latin American Studies.
Glenn Walbourn 00:31
All right, so let's start just on a small level. So how is the pandemic just affected your own life, so daily life?
Jeff DeGrave 00:38
I don't, I don't go to work anymore. I work from home, learn lots of new technologies for virtual communication, some better than others. I don't see people anymore other than in a virtual setting. So it's sort of strange to not have person to person contact other than with my wife and dog. It also affected my work that we had to cancel all of our spring and summer immersion programs. Hopefully, we'll get a few more in the, in the winter, and we'll see how that goes. But those are probably the biggest changes since the COVID-19 broke.
Glenn Walbourn 01:24
What is it like for you and your colleagues to work from home?
Jeff DeGrave 01:29
Okay, it's got its pros and cons, I guess, you know, you don't, you don't have to be anywhere for a meeting because all the meetings are in your, your living room, or your bedroom or whatever. So that's helpful. We're learning new technology skills, thinking of different ways to solve problems and person to person. So those are all pros, certainly, the cons are Yeah, not having human contact, there's certain things that are just more time consuming and complicated to do through the virtual world than person to person. We can't like give someone a piece of paper to sign anymore. So if I wasn't many of the documents that I get involved in, require multiple signatures. And that has become more complicated, because you can't just hand the same piece of paper from one person or one department to the next department to the next department, it has to be done very differently. And so all these other systems have to be built to cover that. So yeah, so those are probably among the biggest day to day issues.
Glenn Walbourn 02:35
When was the last time you were allowed to be back at the university?
Jeff DeGrave 02:41
I, I can go to the university anytime, I suppose, because I had a key to Schofield. And sometimes I'll find that I don't have the document the physical documents here at home that I need them from work. So I went in there last week or an hour or two just to take care of things that I couldn't do at home. I live close to campus, so it's not that big a deal. But I don't know that it's that I'm disallowed to go to campus, but they strongly encourage us not to go to campus. But of course, because nobody's on campus. I'm actually around fewer people there than I am at home with my wife and dog. So I guess I don't really think of it as being overly significant either way.
Glenn Walbourn 03:25
We'll just ask about the community in general, like how is it just delivered Eau Claire right now?
Jeff DeGrave 03:29
It's quiet. Not a lot to do. Like the restaurants are basically closed. Bars are closed and in a college town. Those are two huge industries. Students aren't working a lot of them have left town because they don't have any jobs here anymore in the foodservice industry. So it's and the hotels are empty. I mean, it's there's a couple taxis here and there. But as far as the city goes, Yeah, it's really quiet, which is sort of sort of unsettling, but I do see a lot of people out on the bike paths and parks and stuff. So people are getting outside but they're just not spending any money basically. And no entertainment as well, like Pablo center is basically closed as well.
Glenn Walbourn 04:17
So what all has remained open, do you know?
Jeff DeGrave 04:22
Certainly government, government always survives right? Many restaurants and bars have gone to carry out only so you can buy beer to go not in a glass but in a cabin or something or a growler or whatever. So, a lot of the places would that we're sitting down places are now selling things strictly to go or are delivered curbside as they call you pull up in your car and they deliver it out to your car so so a number of places just shut but other places are trying to do the best they can with basically carry out as opposed to fine dining. And any restaurant that does fine dining is probably closed.
Glenn Walbourn 05:07
So switching to the effects on your office, what programs have been have you been working on recently that have been drasticallychanged?
Jeff DeGrave 05:22
Well, that's sort of a strange question for me, because the ones that have changed dramatically have been canceled. So I'm not working on them. So I'm working on them, that means they're not canceled, so then they're therefore there isn't really any change. So all the spring and summer programs are canceled. But now is the time where we have applications open for winter programs. So we're just hoping that winter programs will take place, and we have no idea if they will or won't, but we're going to move forward as if they are and hopefully students will be able to travel again this January.
Glenn Walbourn 06:01
So when do you think you know if Winterim would have to be canceled or not? Of course, this is
Jeff DeGrave 06:09
thats a great question.
Jeff DeGrave 06:10
Right. This probably relates to a question you asked previously is probably the the most difficult parts of my job now are the unknowns of what's going to happen and budget cuts and for example, are our emersions assistant Kim Reed is going to be on furlough for two months this summer, like, not come to work at all for two months. So these are the kinds of impacts that it's having around the the office. So one of the unknowns is maybe they'll want her to stay away for three months, or what happens if we don't open or fall semester and we're still online and fall. How does that impact winter programs? So I, from what I understand, we'll be learning by the latest at around I want to say July 6, or something of this nature, the state of fall classes, hopefully sooner. And then if we open for fall, then we'll have to see how it goes. Just because we're open for Fall doesn't mean it's gonna go well. So ultimately, I probably won't know about winter until at least fall.
Glenn Walbourn 06:10
can't be answered.
Glenn Walbourn 07:22
So there, so there's been announcing for UW System budget cuts and program closures. Do you think your office will be affected by this? You already said something about someone being furloughed?
Jeff DeGrave 07:35
Yeah, so we've already we've already had, well, there's two of us in the office, so half of our offices disappeared in theory. So that's already made impacts. And then if the winter programs get canceled, then that would obviously be a funding cut. Because all those funds that would have gone to winter programs would then, we wouldn't be using them. So they would go back to the university, which is fine. Other than I hope we won't have to cancel those programs. So So yeah, so we're down to one person in the office now. And we have mysteries lurking as to what will happen in the winter. And sooner, because if more budget cuts are coming, then how might that affect, you know, me being the last person in the office?
Glenn Walbourn 08:24
So let's almost go back a step and just say, what were the spring and summer programs that your office usually does that have been canceled?
Jeff DeGrave 08:33
There were about 25 of them.
Glenn Walbourn 08:37
Okay,
Jeff DeGrave 08:39
would you like that list?
Glenn Walbourn 08:40
Um, maybe just some highlights if you don't want to say the entire list.
Jeff DeGrave 08:45
Okay. So one of them was the sets program, for example that you're familiar with, that was canceled. programs to China, which could have would have taken the form of an IFP which international Fellows Program. So it's a research opportunity that students didn't get to do and it was fully funded for these students. So they thought they're going to be spending three or four weeks in China doing research and being fully funded. And now they're going to be home. You know, we're gonna get the golf course or whatever they do. Also, we had an immersion program to China that was cancelled. We also had seven Spring Break domestic immersions program. Programs canceled and those were canceled about a week before spring break. So everything was a go up until the second week of March and then right around St. Patrick's Day is really when sort of the big changes occurred on campus and we close the university and all that so they have programs from across the US as well as international programs, whether they're domestic immersions, international immersions, as well as research immersions. About 25 programs were cancelled between spring and summer. It was also the study abroad office who had to recall all of their students that wasn't my office. But it just gets the layers of complication are so much greater for CIE, the Center for International Education. So as I cancelled them before the students left, whereas their students left in the early part of February, so they had to recall all kinds of students from every, you know, not every country in the world, but dozens and dozens of guys, rather complicated, let's say.
Glenn Walbourn 10:32
So did you have to help them with the recall? Or were they able to handle it on their own?
Jeff DeGrave 10:39
Yeah, they're able to handle it. And it's I offered, but they seem to have it under control, they have a much larger office with many more people than we do so. So I took care of the immersions. And they took care of theirs. But certainly, I had an easier time of it that they did.
Glenn Walbourn 10:54
So what was the progression of the cancellations was it just we'll cancel spring break first, and then see where the summer goes? Or was it kind of all at once?
Jeff DeGrave 11:05
It was a bit of a mixed bag, because some folks soon as they heard about the, the COVID in China, so we had these programs going to China, which was probably first on the global radar, where you would find, you know, incidents of COVID, that China put made their own rules that said, we are not allowing anyone from the United States to come here, unless they're in quarantine for 14 days. And then we the United States had, we're not allowing anybody to leave the US to go to China. So if the two governments say no one's coming, then our programs are ultimately going to be cancelled. So that was sort of the first wave of the dominoes to fall, all programs to China were canceled. And then ultimately, the Coronavirus spread went to Italy, we had a program in Italy, we had to cancel that one. And Germany came and so on and so on. And so it was sort of gradual. For a while. We were hoping in South America where it was a little bit later to make its appearance, the COVID that we could maybe sneak in a program to Argentina, or to Finland and Estonia, which were very low and still are relatively low on the terms of the number of cases. But eventually, it just became, we can't we just the numbers are too high. We've cancelled all these other programs, and there's only like three left. And then, of course, you know, what about students who want to travel? Let's say you go in the Finland program, and you want to travel to Italy after the program? And how can we ensure the safety of students once the program is over? We certainly didn't want them to go to Italy and say, How can you let me go to Europe, I got sick now as a result. So we just said, you know, it's best, it's easiest to cancel it all. And then we eventually, Donald Trump said no more flights in or out of the EU, and then no more flights in or out of Ireland and the UK. That pretty well sealed the deal. So we're following the direction of our national government, state governments, the Univer university system, as well as UW Eau Claire, so it was quite a changing set of rules every single day, depending on who was speaking from which perspective.
Glenn Walbourn 13:18
So let's move on to just the reactions to what your office has done. Was the been the reaction of students to your cancellations? And to, yeah, let's go with that. And I'll ask the second question.
Jeff DeGrave 13:35
Okay, most of its just disappointed disappointment. And by the time most of the programs were canceled, students were already very, very, very aware of what was going on in the world. So when the China programs were canceled, students were quite aware of what was already going on in China. So they're, most of them are like oh, I figured this was coming. And sure enough, you know, where everybody was hopeful that that would resolve itself. And that would be the end of the story. You know, like some some previous disease we've had of West Nile or whatever, they kind of come and go, whereas this one stuck around. And not only that, it started to spread so, so I didn't really have any, I don't think I had one student that emailed me and said, I can't believe you're canceling my program, blah, blah, blah, I did have a number of students that say, I've talked to my folks, and they don't want me to go and I need to withdraw. And we said perfectly fine. That makes 100% total sense. And you will receive 100% refund of the fees you pay because we don't want to put any student in jeopardy. So So I had zero students, whereas faculty are probably, you know, the most disappointed, particularly spring break when it was a week before those programs are supposed to go. And the COVID hadn't really hit the US hard, at least not where most of these programs are going to like can we? We can sneak it in just you know next week like Not gonna happen. So as more of the faculty members was being disappointed, particularly with the spring break programs, and particularly with it was canceling them basically one week before those programs were ready to go.
Glenn Walbourn 15:09
Yeah, because there's at least one spring break program, the Civil Rights pilgrimage going down to the south. So why were programs like that canceled at that point?
Jeff DeGrave 15:20
Basically, because it partly a lot of the, the partners were did not want to be want to participate in the potential spread of disease. Like if we have students coming from the north there in the south, they were some partners saying this is too high of a risk. And we're gonna have to cancel our, our share of the duty. So a lot of programs weren't canceled because of us, but we cancelled them as a result of our partners saying, We can't do this. And so ultimately, we had to react to them. So it was a very quickly moving set of circumstances that we're changing all the time of who, who's going to cancel? What what sort of entity or organization is going to say, you know, we just can't do it. You don't have to cancel your program. But you're not you can't do it with us because we were afraid of the Coronavirus, which was again, totally understandable. So a lot of our our cancellation was mostly reactive to what the world around us was telling us basically.
Glenn Walbourn 16:30
So the second part to my original question is, what was the what is the reaction to students about the future? So applying to winterim next year?
Jeff DeGrave 16:40
Yeah, I mean, I haven't had too many personal conversations with students partly because we're all in the virtual world. So nobody can just sort of, you know, spontaneously step in the office and ask me about programs or get an email or so. But in terms of the number of students who have signed up, or a winter immersion program is no different, perhaps even higher than what we normally get. So I guess you could look at it two ways is this is my opinion, and maybe I'm wrong. One is, people have been, you know, have got Cabin Fever, because they've been cooped up in their house for so long. They're just ready to go anywhere at this point. Or on the other hand, people could be afraid, because Oh, who knows the Coronavirus will still be learning about the world by January, but it seems whatever those you know, the balance between those two is has had zero impact so far on number of students who have registered for winter program.
Glenn Walbourn 17:41
So will there be any choice a preference to those who had already applied for next year? Or is it just going to be just open season again for next year's applications?
Jeff DeGrave 17:53
That's a good question. We haven't really thought about that. But ultimately, actually let me, rephrase that. I know what you mean now. So strike that from the record.
Glenn Walbourn 18:04
All right.
Jeff DeGrave 18:04
Yes, if you were involved in a program this year that was canceled, you're automatically rolled over to the next year. And then we'll sort of fill in the missing pieces. If, if let's say three students graduated this summer, obviously, they can go in the program next year, then we'll say, Hey, we've got three spots open. But yeah, any student that's still around, is they're are already enrolled and accepted and all that and they don't have to reapply. I shouldn't say everyone, some students, many students decided to take a refund, because they didn't know what the world was going to be like a year from now. And so they just withdrew their application got a refund, and would be reapplying next year. So it's a mixed bag.
Glenn Walbourn 18:49
Okay. So then, what has been the reaction of your office staff to what has happened?
Jeff DeGrave 19:00
What do you mean?
Glenn Walbourn 19:01
So, like, how are they processed? And what are they think of what is going on? Between the cancellations and now being having to be furloughed,
Jeff DeGrave 19:14
oh, right, yeah. I mean, it's, it's tough. It all is understandable. I mean, it's a virus that has killed however many, you know, hundreds of 1000s or 10s of 1000s. I don't even know what that number is up to.
Glenn Walbourn 19:28
I just wrote it down beforehand. The total deaths in the world is like over 267,000. And US is now over 75,000. According to Johns Hopkins.
Jeff DeGrave 19:41
Okay. Yeah, that's what I was thinking of the US number particular. But yeah, so for all the 10s of 1000s of people that have, you know, died from this already. And obviously, we don't want to put students at risk. So everybody's trying to do the right thing, but at the same time, by you know, stifling our economy and obviously Reducing the amount of taxes like businesses are paying and sales tax and all that, you know, we are funded by the taxpayer. So it's on one hand, you want to do the right thing. On the other hand, there's going to be repercussions. So, so Kim in my office has been incredible and super understanding. And it's just sort of taken it with a grain of salt. And we'll see how it goes. I mean, I think, well, she and I, and we've had other student interns in the past as well, but haven't seen those folks in a long time. But it's, it's just all about unknown now. And again, that's probably of all things that's probably the most unsettling is the unknown, the financial unknown, whether programs are going to go with winter weather school is going to be opened as normal in the fall, and all these sorts of things. So that's, that's, that's the main cause of stress for sure.
Glenn Walbourn 20:56
And lastly, what is been, what have you heard from the university administration like that they've reacted to anything that you've put forward? Or? Or has all your orders just come from them?
Jeff DeGrave 21:14
Well, actually, I'm on part of the emergency management team, which is includes the Chancellor and a number of other people. So that's, like, get to participate in all these, these meetings where decisions were made of, okay, what are we going to do next. So ultimately, I've had very direct access to the decisions that have been made, and I will give the chancellor great kudos for being very transparent, participatory. And very, very open to suggestions and ideas from everybody I have been very impressed with the leadership the chancellor has, has brought it's been very democratic to I should throw that in there. The decision making process for everything like the close school, or to cancel immersions, or to do whatever, it's all been very, very open. And to me, anyway, very democratic.
Glenn Walbourn 22:17
So like, all those announcements back in March, from the university, you were a part of the team that decided on those things?
Jeff DeGrave 22:26
It's, it's a little different than maybe what I'm describing. But there's a team of I want to say, I forget how many people are on the committee, I dont know, maybe 40, or something like that. And so we were broken off into groups, like facilities was over this group. And housing was in that group and financial aid was in this group. And so all these subgroups worked on their own sort of specialty. And then when the subgroup came up with their thoughts, it was the best way to approach they presented it to everybody, including the chancellor, we all went through all the iterations. And then decisions were made. So. So basically, he the chancellor, instructed those with knowledge and experience in a particular category, to sort of walk and talk through everything. And then based on their experience and knowledge to present that as Okay, here's what we think would be our possible solutions, which ones we think will work best or not, or whatever. And then, you know, they would field questions from everybody else in this sort of thing. So it was very collaborative. And we all work together in our individual groups, the small groups, and then we would expand that out to the bigger groups, including the chancellor,
Glenn Walbourn 23:45
you know, what group were you a part of?
Jeff DeGrave 23:48
International.
Glenn Walbourn 23:49
Okay. So with that, I'm gonna take programs above your office and the CIE.
Jeff DeGrave 23:58
Sorry.
Glenn Walbourn 24:01
So International was your office in the CIE? Like that sort of topic?
Jeff DeGrave 24:06
Yep. And they also had siege, the Council for Global Engagement on campus which arranges lots of international activities. Also, we had a personal health because of traveling and the spread of the virus because that was a global looking at the spread of the virus as a global issue. So we had someone from Student Health Services and risk management I believe, trying to think who else was on our committee but there were about a half dozen of us. irritate.
Glenn Walbourn 24:46
Okay, so now we can just move on to more personal thoughts. So with your experience and background, what is your perspective of the COVID 19 pandemic?
Jeff DeGrave 24:59
It's Welcome to globalization, I guess is one way to think about it that, you know, we often weaving people in the United States, historically speaking, we like to think of ourselves as being away from the rest of the world isolationism, because we have these two oceans on either side of us. And you know, we've had that foreign policy for years and years and years. And certainly, you know, when you think of globalization, maybe we think of clothes or cars or whatever. But disease is maybe the first time in 100 years, that we've thought about disease having a major impact, you know, in talking about the Spanish flu from 1918. And, you know, of course, a year ago, we might have say, Well, that was 1918, of course, the this disease spread, they didn't have all these modern, you know, technologies and inoculations and blah, blah, blah, well, here we are 21st century, it's the same story all over again, to one degree or another as what it was, like in 1918. So. So for me from a global and historical perspective, it's sort of a numbers game that eventually, with enough, you know, variations and mutations of various viruses, sooner or later, there's going to be one that, you know, takes over, you know, a large area and impacts a huge number of people. And so I guess, it's a statistical probability. Of course, we can also look at, you know, our president cutting funding for, you know, the whatever, various, you know, medical groups, like the pandemic Research Institute, or whatever it was called, and the CDC, in Georgia, and so on, and so on. So we can look at it that way as well about, you know, looking at the impacts, you want to cut, funding and save money. That's great. Everybody loves that. But what happens if you've cut too much, then perhaps, maybe we would have found out about this beforehand, and it wouldn't have happened. So I can't say there's a cause and effect, by any means, but certainly does raise the question of what would have happened had we had the proper funding or more funding put into these other organizations whose job it is to be aware of these things, and make the proper corrective action was a coincidence that we defunded these organizations, and then we happen to have an epidemic pandemic shortly thereafter. So a lot of interesting political, spatial and historical questions that sort of, you know, maybe make make us more humble thinking that the 21st century, nothing like the 1918 flu could ever happen again. And here we are across the globe.
Glenn Walbourn 27:42
So I know you've already said this multiple times. But I'll just like kind of ask this question again, just to have it all in one place. What do you think the strengths of the university have been during this crisis?
Jeff DeGrave 27:56
I think that it solution or university has shown great, exceptional leadership, I would say, in dealing with all the unknowns, I mean, there are just so many variables, and there were a lot of variables two months ago, there's still so many variables, right now, when I'm part of these meetings with emergency management team, it's just incredible when you try to think okay, what if what if, what if, what if what if you cannot, you cannot account for all the variables and how those may or may not affect us in a dramatic way. So leadership has been amazing. Technology, the folks who support technology have been, I can't imagine what their jobs had been, like, you know, assisting with everybody, every student and faculty members and staff member on campus with their technology learning curve, we'll put it that way, over the last couple of months. So those folks, the technology and technology people have been amazing. Of course, the students have been amazing and adaptable. I can't even imagine what it's like for someone like yourself to having to switch gears in the middle of the semester to this wacky new online, final semester. So the students have been amazing and very understanding it seems the faculty have done a great job of shifting their courses in the middle of semester. So I would say, the flexibility that everybody has shown and the understanding that nobody This is nobody's fault, as far as we know. That but the understanding like okay, none of us can control this, none of us would wish this. We're all in it together. So a lot of a lot of understanding, kindness, care, flexibility, all those things that make it all all go basically.
Glenn Walbourn 29:41
So do you think there's any mistakes the university has made over the last few months?
Jeff DeGrave 29:46
I'm sure there are and they would probably, you know, say yeah, we made a few mistakes, but there's nothing that really sticks out in my mind that says you really screwed up this time University. I will say, based on today's news, what's going on with the like, why cant I think of it the President of the UW system, is that what he is? the president?
Glenn Walbourn 30:14
are you talking about cross that statement guy, guy in the news. Okay, I'm not sure what his position is. But yes, I did see that.
Jeff DeGrave 30:22
he is the Grand Poobah of UW system. He's like the president of the whole statewide UW system. And today, he made a very interesting announcement. And so I feel like that is an up and coming massive mistake, but that's nothing that our university did. It's the leadership of UW system.
Glenn Walbourn 30:55
Okay, yes, it is UW System President Cross
Jeff DeGrave 30:58
that yeah, so. Yep.
Glenn Walbourn 31:01
Okay. And switch into what do you think the strings from the more national level has been? That you've seen?
Jeff DeGrave 31:10
I think I've seen the strength more in individuals than like, on a federal level, let's just say and on state level as well, like the governor of Michigan, I can't remember her name. But she's been amazing. Even Tony, Tony Evers in Wisconsin has been amazing. The governor of Minnesota has been amazing, which maybe is how it should go that smaller regions and areas should have control over what they think is best for their situation. I mean, like the state of Illinois is interesting, because if you make statewide rules, you know, the situation in Chicago is, is chaos, at least it has been until recently. Whereas the rest of the state, because it's not so densely populated. Very much like Eau Claire, we haven't had any major issues, because we have a lot of the ratio of number of hospitals and doctors and medical facilities, the number of people who live in Eau Claire County is very high relative to any major big city like Detroit, or Philadelphia, or Chicago or Milwaukee, where they have lots of people. And their ability to get seen or treated by a medical person is limited. So I think having a perspective, a global perspective, but having a more regionally or locally focused approach is a good thing. So. So federal, it was great that there was the federal emergency funding for that, that helped students and helping universities and all that, that that was fantastic. However, I will question a lot of the other sort of assessments, judgments and claim by our federal government about the COVID virus that have been never scientifically proven, let's just say,
Glenn Walbourn 32:57
you mentioned the federal funding for students do it, do you know much about that? and it's affect on students?
Jeff DeGrave 33:04
emergency funding for students, if just for whatever reason, you you are, you have no money. A lot of it may relate to your you don't know, you know, the support of your parents or a job or whatever. That money has been made available for students by the federal government. It doesn't go for, you know, to make classes cheaper, it just goes straight to the students. It's, it's, it's just cash, you don't have to pay it back. It's, it's just aid. And so I forget what the chancellor said the other day, but a significant number of students have received some form of aid. Don't quote me on this, even though I know you're quoting me on this, but it's somewhere around I think 1500 uw Claire students have already received and or applied for their aid, but you'll have to ask somebody else about that. Something like that.
Glenn Walbourn 34:01
Okay. I don't think at least for students, that number has been published yet. But
Jeff DeGrave 34:07
this is the care act, really with that?
Glenn Walbourn 34:10
Yeah, I think in our last email we got just today it said more than $3.5 million in money has been allocated.
Jeff DeGrave 34:19
Yep. There you go. That's it
Glenn Walbourn 34:22
[inaudible] Eau Claire students.
Jeff DeGrave 34:23
Yep. And so a fair, fair, a good amount of students have applied for that. And I think many have received already but I, I can't verify that either.
Glenn Walbourn 34:37
All right. So then what do you think the weaknesses of the federal government and the state government has been during this crisis?
Jeff DeGrave 34:48
The federal government there has been a lot of misinformation and information that has not been scientifically supported. Perhaps information that's Been Released for political interests, there's been decisions made. And then those decisions were countered. The next day, I think just today, our president said he wasn't going to dissolve the COVID task force. And yesterday he said he would. I'm not saying he should have stuck with the dissolve that but this is a good example of problematic leadership at a high level. And that was most of those cases are pretty well documented me we sort of know how that goes. Whereas state level goes, I mean, probably depends on which state you're in is a really how it goes from state to state. Some, like Iowa, for example, has, they've never they didn't do the quarantining, and they have among the highest rates of the virus in the country. So they they're an example, in my opinion of a government that maybe didn't do enough. was it South Dakota is also maybe another one of those dates. I'm not 100% sure.
Glenn Walbourn 36:02
Yeah, I don't think they've ever officially closed down.
Jeff DeGrave 36:06
Yeah. So I mean, I would say Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, those three states come to mind right away that have done a good job, in my mind anyway.
Glenn Walbourn 36:19
So just lastly, do you have anything else that you'd like to say, on this issue? Just any random thing you'd like to say or something that you couldn't fully express earlier?
Jeff DeGrave 36:33
Yeah, I'm hopeful that science will, will rule the day, whether that's through a vaccine, or through information that is shared with the public to help everyone make the best decision. But really, I think the bottom line is, we need to depend on science and not intuition, suspicion, you know, or, or extreme thoughts of, what if, what if, what if we can get caught in that sort of rabbit hole. Infinitely almost. But if we rely on science and hopefully science will be is working to find us a vaccination or a cure whatever word you want to use. I think we'll all be better off with the help of science rather than whatever other means of knowledge that have been shared.
Glenn Walbourn 37:25
All right. Well, Dr. Degraves thank you so much for being interviewed today.
Jeff DeGrave 37:31
Hey, thanks for having me. Glad it was great. Great to see you again. And I I'll be interested to see how you know the the end result of your of your study.
Glenn Walbourn 37:39
Yep. Yeah, I think
Jeff DeGrave 37:41
all right.
Glenn Walbourn 37:43
Next few I'll stop recording whereever the button is for that
Date Accepted (Dublin Core)
2020/05/16 4:31:15 PM AST