JuJu Urcis Oral History, 2022/07/14

Self Description - "Well, I'm a 40 year old female identifying person with the pronouns she, her or they, and I'm not married and not in relationship. And I'm a very open minded and curious person about the world and about people and relationships and spirituality. I am a licensed acupuncturist and I pretty deeply woven into the Chinese medicine lineage. I have a few very prominent or teachers who I would say play a pretty crucial role in my life, including Jeffrey Yuen, and Lonnie Jarrett, and kind of a very emotional and spiritual based practice of Chinese medicine. So I look at people and I don't I don't judge people based so much on a physical level, but rather, not even judge I would say, my, my understanding of people and wellness or illness is often much more rooted in emotional and spiritual place, even though I also treat like physiological issues. So that whole realm is extremely interesting to me. And I spent most of my life and most of my days understanding all that and as well as how is how it affects my body, my life and my mind and spirit. So that's, and then I'm also very much a plant lover, nature lover. I live in a tiny home in the woods. And yeah, I'm an animal lover, I love my weekly visit to a horse rescue ideally to work eventually doing acupuncture on horses, and yeah, and my spiritual practice. As both a priestess and practitioner the medicine kind of interestingly weaves me through through life with that sort of lens. Yeah, and I also work with this group called the Lilium initiative, and it's, I do presentations with them also, based on like, plant plant history, wisdom, cultivation. So yeah."

Some of the things we discussed include:
Pre-pandemic premonitions about a wave of illness; seeing patterns in the universe; ethics of telling others; observing cycles in nature.
Making a tincture with elderberry in November 2019.
Foreseeing illness with TCM; emotions and spirituality in TCM.
Humans are not separate from nature; villainization of bacteria, viruses, and parasites.
Lab-manufactured COVID.
Living in a tiny home.
Isolating with one person in the woods, March 2020-September/October 2020.
New ways of convening: small groups, online; drifting from friends who didn’t want to meet in person.
First online Passover with homemade oat matzah; Counting of the Omer; Yom Kippur on Zoom; Shabbat online.
A pregnant friend’s COVID precautions.
Discomfort with the government and western medicine; fear tactics.
BigPharma; placebo effect; allopathic medicine co-opting natural remedies.
Additives and allergies in vaccines; quick development of the vaccine.
Comparisons between the flu vaccine and COVID vaccine.
Choosing not to get vaccinated; vaccinated family members getting sick; right to personal choice; being turned away from services and a birthday party, not having access to travel; safety as a feeling of freedom.
Mandated vaccination and outlawed abortions.
Terrain theory and germ theory.
Autoimmune compromised sister in isolation; family’s sentiments about masking.
Siblings in healthcare: physician and physical therapist.
Treatment of the elderly in western medicine: nursing homes.
Masks weakening lung pulses; easy access to masking.
COVID comparisons with other ailments: the flu, Herpes, tuberculosis, cholera.
Fat cells and COVID, obesity.
Observations about patients: post-COVID depression, lassitude, shortness of breath.
Catching COVID twice/ COVID going dormant; shortages of COVID tests; the importance of free testing.
Having natural antibodies from an illness.
Music: chanting, Kirtan, didgeridoo, concerts.
Hashem’s protection.
Growing up in a racially diverse town; BLM.
Concerns about increasing outer space investigations; science, exploration and recklessness.
Spending time at a horse rescue.
Having learned more about the Oregon trail than Native Americans history and the history of women in the Torah.

Cultural references: Jeffrey Yuen, Lonny Jarrett, LILIUM Initiative, Louis Pasteur, Wilderness Torah, Urban Adamah, Reality TV, non-violent communication

July 14, 2022 09:45

Kit Heintzman

JuJu Urcis

Kit Heintzman

English Biography

English Health & Wellness

English Home & Family Life

English Race & Ethnicity

English Religion

English Government Federal

choice

birthday

isolation

friendship

vaccine

unvaccinated

abortion

acupuncture

astrology

authoritarianism

Big Pharma

birthdays

BLM

California

COVID+

Cuban American

germ theory

government

Hashem

herbalism

Jewish

Kabala

Kohnet

meditation

mixed race

pregnancy

Priestess

queer

race

racism

Rooster

rural

Shabbat

space

spirituality

TCM

testing

vaccination

Yom Kippur

Latino(a/x) Voices

LGBTQ+

Religion

02/22/2023

08/29/2023

07/14/2022

Kit Heintzman

JuJu Urcis

Nevada City

California

United States of America

Video

English

01:31:10

Pre-pandemic premonitions about a wave of illness; seeing patterns in the universe; ethics of telling others; observing cycles in nature. Making a tincture with elderberry in November 2019. Foreseeing illness with TCM; emotions and spirituality in TCM. Humans are not separate from nature; villainization of bacteria, viruses, and parasites. Lab-manufactured COVID. Living in a tiny home. Isolating with one person in the woods, March 2020-September/October 2020. New ways of convening: small groups, online; drifting from friends who didn’t want to meet in person. First online Passover with homemade oat matzah; Counting of the Omer; Yom Kippur on Zoom; Shabbat online. A pregnant friend’s COVID precautions. Discomfort with the government and western medicine; fear tactics. BigPharma; placebo effect; allopathic medicine co-opting natural remedies. Additives and allergies in vaccines; quick development of the vaccine. Comparisons between the flu vaccine and COVID vaccine. Choosing not to get vaccinated; vaccinated family members getting sick; right to personal choice; being turned away from services and a birthday party, not having access to travel; safety as a feeling of freedom. Mandated vaccination and outlawed abortions. Terrain theory and germ theory. Autoimmune compromised sister in isolation; family’s sentiments about masking. Siblings in healthcare: physician and physical therapist. Treatment of the elderly in western medicine: nursing homes. Masks weakening lung pulses; easy access to masking. COVID comparisons with other ailments: the flu, Herpes, tuberculosis, cholera. Fat cells and COVID, obesity. Observations about patients: post-COVID depression, lassitude, shortness of breath. Catching COVID twice/ COVID going dormant; shortages of COVID tests; the importance of free testing. Having natural antibodies from an illness. Music: chanting, Kirtan, didgeridoo, concerts. Hashem’s protection. Growing up in a racially diverse town; BLM. Concerns about increasing outer space investigations; science, exploration and recklessness. Spending time at a horse rescue. Having learned more about the Oregon trail than Native Americans history and the history of women in the Torah.

Kit Heintzman 00:02
Hello, would you tell me your name, the date, the time and your location?

Juju Urcis 00:08
Hi, my name is Julia Urcis and I go by Juju. The date is July 14 2022. And I live currently in Nevada City, California.

Kit Heintzman 00:26
And the time?

Juju Urcis 00:28
And the time is 9:45am. Pacific Standard Time.

Kit Heintzman 00:35
And do you consent to having this interview recorded, digitally uploaded and publicly released under Creative Commons License attribution noncommercial sharealike?

Juju Urcis 00:45
I do.

Kit Heintzman 00:46
Thank you so much for being here. Would you please start by just introducing yourself to anyone who might find themselves listening, what would you want them to know about you?

Juju Urcis 00:53
Well, I'm a 40 year old female identifying person with the pronouns she, her or they, and I'm not married and not in relationship. And I'm a very open minded and curious person about the world and about people and relationships and spirituality. I am a licensed acupuncturist and I pretty deeply woven into the Chinese medicine lineage. I have a few very prominent or teachers who I would say play a pretty crucial role in my life, including Jeffrey Yuen, and Lonnie Jarrett, and kind of a very emotional and spiritual based practice of Chinese medicine. So I look at people and I don't I don't judge people based so much on a physical level, but rather, not even judge I would say, my, my understanding of people and wellness or illness is often much more rooted in emotional and spiritual place, even though I also treat like physiological issues. So that whole realm is extremely interesting to me. And I spent most of my life and most of my days understanding all that and as well as how is how it affects my body, my life and my mind and spirit. So that's, and then I'm also very much a plant lover, nature lover. I live in a tiny home in the woods. And yeah, I'm an animal lover, I love my weekly visit to a horse rescue ideally to work eventually doing acupuncture on horses, and yeah, and my spiritual practice. As both a priestess and practitioner the medicine kind of interestingly weaves me through through life with that sort of lens. Yeah, and I also work with this group called the Lilium initiative, and it's, I do presentations with them also, based on like, plant plant history, wisdom, cultivation. So yeah.

Kit Heintzman 03:56
Tell me a story about your life during the pandemic.

Juju Urcis 03:59
Yeah, my life during the pandemic, it was actually the first year when it started, it came upon us. I had personal premonitions about it happening. And some of my teachers also knew that a big you know, a wave of illness was coming. And what's interesting for me is that I sort of came into it with this perspective of like nature coming up and and having this you know, like a force from nature, especially this almost like a feminine force, but actually when I kind of see it now, it wasn't as much feminine necessarily, as it was this like a Yin versus Yang like a Yin precense, coming into being and I wasn't as concerned about the origin of the illness being fabricated by man or, you know, in a lab, like when that sort of information came out, I don't see man as separate from nature. So for me, it was more of a, you know, it wasn't like a conspiracy or anything, it was just like, well, this is where nature is taking us basically, you know, also showing us like, you can't mess with Mother Nature. And like, this is what happens, you know, not so much of a punishment, but of like, oh, this is where we are going now, you know. And I, at the time, had just moved from Santa Cruz, where I finished my master's in Chinese medicine. I had been studying the medicine since 2005. And took some time off and then in 2017, and went back to school and finished in 2019. And so yeah, I had just moved from Santa Cruz, back to Nevada County. And I lived pretty ruraly on some land with a friend that I knew from before I left Nevada County for Santa Cruz. So it was a very interesting isolation period with a person who I mean, also I knew her, but I wasn't very close with her. So it was very nice to have that sort of insular period to really get to know this person. And I felt like it was a journey of getting to know this person for me, of being in isolation, not really going into town or seeing other people for about two weeks at a time. And, and having neighbors that were friendly, that I you know, saw occasionally, but not a lot of people that I see for, for at least the first see from about March until well, definitely until September, October. One of my friends at that time was was just getting pregnant. So I think I kind of gauge it on that person because like she was one of the more kind of like, standoffish of like, Oh, should we hang out because I'm pregnant? You know, I don't want to get sick. So I didn't have a lot of friends who were immunocompromised so I didn't see you know, that impact us as much usually gathered with only like five or less people at any time anyway. But yeah, my experience the the first year was pretty painless, I would say it was interesting to have my first Passover online, I hadn't done that before. And I also found this period of time counting the omer after Passover, which is a sort of practice Kabbalistic practice of introducing each day having this attribute, kind of like a you could call it a moral attribute or you could also just call it more of like a way of seeing the divine in an ordinary things. And, but then you kind of specifically look into that in terms of relationships with others and, and relationship to myself and, and the divine. And and that was a really special I felt like it was it magnified that experience, which I guess happens in kind of extreme times is there's a magnification I think the connection with the Divine or some people go the other way, you know, some people completely abandon that, that possibility. So, um, so yeah, counting the omer was extremely important to me that year. Connecting with other people in a digital way was new, but also really profound. And there was even I would say, an amplification of connection for me with certain groups like the Cohanet community, which is the priestess community, I'm a part of, I'm ordained as being a cohanet priestess and then also with the wilderness Torah community that I'm one of the core members of I'm not a core member, but I'm a they call it there. It's it's some kind of like, poor core counsel that I because I was really involved with them for a really wide Well, or for a few years. And yeah, so that was that was proof I found I did a Yom Kippur service the year before with a group in Santa Cruz. And it was like kind of partly possible more possible to be part of it this, not this year, but year 2020. Because I was able to do the Kol Nidrei chant from zoom. And that, you know, it's interesting, and also kind of nice to be far away and still be able to participate. I don't know if that probably wouldn't, you know, that wouldn't have been the case, if it were if we weren't restricted in that way. So yeah, I would say the harder time period was the second year for me. And that was because I had some personal things happen for me that kind of some decisions that I made that were not wise. And that kind of left me feeling. I think, in a sense, disconnected from my community. Interestingly enough, it was sort of that period of getting to know this person I was living with, and being extremely connected with them. That sort of reduced, I'd say, My connection with other people in my community, especially certain friends who are extremely, like, they're inhibited from connecting or being in a physical place with me because of COVID. And, you know, just fear, basically fear of getting sick. And so, yeah, I found myself and I kind of in a, what do you call that, like, um, like a funnel or something, you know, like, I kind of funneled my, my time and energy to one person. And then once that relation, once I started to move away from that relationship to find a place, you know, to be more interested in, in a different living situation, basically, because living situation was intentionally temporary, it was kind of like this place from moving to Santa Cruz to living here with no, like, no real awareness that it was going to be so isolated in that way. You know, yeah, I knew there was something coming, but I didn't know it was gonna be that widespread of, you know, isolation. And so yeah, it was, the second year was much harder for me after kind of as a, like a, like a, you know, backlash or whatever have have the experience rather than that first year of worry or fear of being ill. So.

Kit Heintzman 12:58
Would you share more about your longer journey with premonitions, and what it felt like to have this awareness of a dawning before one sees what that awareness was, in fact about?

Juju Urcis 13:13
Yeah, it's very interesting. I mean, I look at I think that's just part of where, like, I think that's what I'm I like, it's a gift sometimes. But it's also a challenge. I think, I mean, this is true for for people too. Like I can see things coming with people including illness, right? I mean, that's part of Chinese medicine is that people don't just show up with illness, it actually you can kind of foresee it based on certain patterns. And that's and I'm also, you know, pretty deep into astrology. So there's, you know, that premonition aspect or know seeing patterns in the universe and seeing how, like, you can sort of, like, some people would call it predictive astrology, but I kind of like, come back from that, because you don't really know what's going to happen. But it is like this sort of, like awareness of change and awareness of an a propensity for something to happen. So, um, I guess for me, I don't, I don't fear anything. Really. That's kind of a, I think a might be a trait for a rooster. I'm a year of a rooster. So it's kind of just like, okay, just, you know, go, go go at it or go, it's just, you know, it's just what it is. It's, it's easy to just see like, Okay, this is just what it is. And, yeah, I don't feel like I need to like, well, there was a time in the past when I felt like I needed to warn people or I need it to be like the person to, you know, to take on some heroic role of, you know, informing people or, or, yeah, something like that. But I think as I've gotten older, I just realized, you know, it's not my place to do that. It's more of like, yeah, just to be, I think there's more of a gentleness in my approach to life in general, and definitely kind of steering clear of any sort of need to be the hero in any way of anything.

Kit Heintzman 15:27
Do you remember when you first heard about COVID-19. So like, thinking of it as like, a thing with a name?

Juju Urcis 15:39
Yeah, um, it was either late February, I think it was late February or right around the kind of the big shutdown, and like, the second week of March, I think it was, but it was interesting, because I started reading some literature about viruses and germ theory shortly before the announcements from the government. And, and it kind of, I mean, I have a thing with government, I have a thing with, you know, with Western medicine in general. So my perspective is just like, oh, really, you know, like, are you really gonna do this? Do you even you know, do you even get it like nobody gets, you know, it's just not nobody, but it's just, it's so old, not old school, even. It's just so like, like, elementary. I just feel like, like, and also government, like politics, you know, politics to me. It's, I It saddens me to some extent that there isn't a greater, like intelligence, I think, but it also like, that's another place well, okay, well, I just need to understand, you know, most people don't get it, or most people aren't developed in that way to understand this bigger picture. But it also is just really sad to me that people of power. It seemed to me at the time, also like that people of power, we're using the fear tactic. And that's kind of how I saw. That's how I saw that initial response from the government. And it was like, Okay, we're gonna just like heard all the sheep now, because, you know, there's this wolf, the virus, but you know, is hungry. So, um, yeah, so I think and then I remember going to a farmers market in Santa Cruz before I left, and one of my teachers and I, oh, and I hadn't made this tincture in November the year before. And it was very much like, Okay, this, I need to make this medicine. For whatever reason, I don't always make I like to make medicine, but I'm not very like, regimented. I don't have a product line or anything like that. But I decided to make this tincture with some old elderberries that I had, and a bunch of other Chinese herbs that I was, you know, able to get and, and I sold it to a lot of my colleagues at a health fair that we had, you know, like a winter holiday fair. And one of my teachers bought it too. And then like, yeah, so, and I think it was January of 2020, I ran into one of my professors at the farmers market, and he's like, Oh, I'm so glad I got that medicine from you. I think it's gonna come and use, you know, and, and we need, we need your help, like, we're gonna need your help this year, there's gonna be a big one. And like, Yeah, well, sorry, I'm not going to be around because I'm going to be in Nevada County, you know, like, so. And that's another interesting thing. You know, it's like, what are the chances that, like, Hashem I call Hashem like Divine is going to, like, give me this, I mean, I just feel so fortunate in that sense of like, I had really no, like, I didn't know the magnitude of the event. But I knew that I wanted to be in Nevada County. I knew I wanted to be like, the place that I felt most comfortable and I wanted to live in ruraly again. And yeah, but just, you know, I mean, it just crazy that within a month of moving to the back to Nevada County, that it just all, you know, went down

Kit Heintzman 19:45
To this extent that you're comfortable sharing, would you say something about what your experiences with health and healthcare infrastructure and I'm thinking about sort of a standard Western medicalizing structure were pre pandemic?

Juju Urcis 19:58
Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty cynical. I say this from a few different perspectives, one from educational perspective, you know, I have definitely, and I've been interested in medicine for a long time. And I basically see most of Western medicine as a band aid to what a deeper illness is. And most of the time, Western medicine does not address that deeper illness. Not only that Western medicine loves to compartmentalize things, and not really see the integration of all the all the effects, nor is there any sort of, I guess, like, it's not awareness, but it is just, there's no, nobody takes responsibility of, of the, the role of the pharmaceutical industry, I feel like the pharmaceutical industry just has this like free rein to come up with medicine, you know, that is, may or may not be supportive, you know, even the tests, like a lot of the case studies from pharmaceutical companies. Just yeah, it's just, it's, it's not consistent, first of all, and yet, they, they are given a lot of free rein to, to naturally, like, come up with, like, cut to create products that have extremely, like horrible side effects for a lot of people. So it's kind of like a trade off of like, are you, you know, when if you if it's like, it's you choose, you're suffering, you know, and then I'm really saddened by like, sort of this decision to, to use herbal medicine or to kind of like, go in the direction of herbal medicine, but really, it's to extract very specific substances. And that doesn't, that does not make it effective. For the most part there, you know, again, there's all sorts of placebo effect, which is like 60% of the most medication is placebo effect anyway, which has its own, you know, like, mind effect, you know, you're kind of using, you're using the mind to, to heal. And that's important, because that's a big part of healing too. But I think it's kind of manipulative, actually, to create this billion multibillion dollar industry, that, that also controls the physicians, like controls the people that actually know, something, you know, that are trying to help people, but then there's the insurance companies and the insurance companies, you know, control to some extent, what the physicians do too. And it's sad to me because it becomes so much more of economic centric situation and it does have like the goodwill of, of helping humanity. My, you know, I have siblings who are physician, I have a physician, my brother's a physician, my sister's a physical therapist, and, honestly, they're not they're, you know, they're not necessarily people who are, who, who seek the best way to heal, you know, they're, they're really in it more for being able to have a job, first of all, and for my brother a job that pays really well. But me, especially my brother, you know, health is not a priority for him. And, and I think that's really common. I mean, it's just, it's just kind of where medicine in western medicine is these days is it's not looking at the whole like, it's not looking even as the individual like the healthy individual. It's, it's become this more of like a money driven industry.

Kit Heintzman 24:27
Do you feel healthy in your own life?

Juju Urcis 24:30
Yeah, I make a big point to to live a healthy life. I mean, I have my issues as well, that I deal with. And, you know, I certainly feel grateful that I'm able to use Western medicine, educated, you know, I get very educated about what I'm doing when I do use Western medicine. But and I realized that you know, There are certain modern conditions, but you know, for which Western medicine is has well asserted itself, you know, I'm not saying that the whole, like, all the history of, of Western medicine is, you know, is not valid, but I mean, even just, it's just there's so many interesting things right now in particular, like, we look at the aging community and how most, so many people just want to put old people into homes, you know, and kind of just like, oh, well, you know, you're basically done. So we're gonna let you rot old, old person's home, and, and then to, like, push so much medication on them, most of which ends up like rendering them, you know, not fully there. And, yeah, so. So I think there are definitely some aspects where I don't want to sound entirely. You know, negative. But I feel like for the most part I am pretty cynical about about Western medicine.

Kit Heintzman 26:14
I wanted to jump back to what you had said about doing your first online Seder, would you give, I'd love to hear a little bit about what felt different about that first online Seder for you and like with that, some of the reference to what it looked like for you in particular before that.

Juju Urcis 26:36
Yeah. Well, I think I, that was one of the first years that I made homemade oat matzah, which is something I've never done before. And I think, because I wasn't, you know, in a group of a lot of family, well, first of all, I usually go to see my family, or Historically, it's been family time. And, and my family can be very traditional, and sometimes oppressive, where, you know, I don't feel like I have the liberty to do the things that I want to do, especially the service, that part you know, becomes kind of dominated by my dad. And so it was kind of a little more liberating that year to try different things. And I mean, it, it became pretty intimate for me also, just like, okay, these are all the I got to know, the parts of the Seder are a little better, because I wasn't relying on my aunt or my, you know, family to tell me what I needed to put on the Seder plate. Um, but yeah, I was in my little, I was living in a pretty like a tiny home then too. So it was just me and the tiny home and then, you know, people on the internet. But I feel like things definitely were slower. The Seder itself wasn't rushed. Sometimes that can happen. People just want to rush through I just felt like it was more people were savoring that time together. Because it was very fresh after after March, it was I think, either the end of March or beginning of April that year. I think it was the beginning of April that year. So. So that made them more precious, I think, you know, yeah. And then historically, I, I either go down south, or I've done paths, pay south with friends, you know, I posted it before, but like, even with my friends, it's kind of nice to have that support, and it's so much more of a community building thing. So to do it on your own, especially to do it on the internet. It's awkward. It's awkward. It's sweet, because you know, you also get to see people that you don't always get to see it's more you know, like that it's more open to to a diversity of friends and family. But yeah, I don't know is that sufficient? Do you want more?

Kit Heintzman 29:16
It is, and maybe more will emerge, because my next question is like, what about the winner? We've made it through three Seders in the pandemic I think so the one after the first online one what has has that changed?

Juju Urcis 29:32
Well, funny thing is that the second year Seder I think I might have actually gone to someone's house that's weird. I can't remember the second, second year as well like remember the first year right because that also happens it's when the intensity like have a situation and you're just like whoa, this is this is big deal. And second years Seder. To be honest, I can't Don't remember, if I went I think I went to someone's house that year. So let's just leave. But the third year, this year, I did go down south, I made a trip to be with my family. My family is a funny group. Whereas like, sometimes they're hypochondriacs, you know, during COVID. I don't think anybody like, besides my sister, nobody really made a big deal of like, not, you know, restricting their travel or not going to the grocery store. You know, they all just like, I think for my dad, first of all, I know for him his reasoning, his reasoning is that if Ashem wants him to get sick, he gets sick. Or it's God teaching him something, you know, he needs that. And then for my aunt, I think she just didn't want people to tell her what she could or couldn't do. You know, I think she just needed her and her husband's like that, too. So I think both of them, just, you know, they don't let they don't let other people dictate to them, what they're kind of Republican, actually. So there's, theres, this like, kind of a conservative mentality for them of like, I'm going to carry a gun, if I want to carry I want to go travel to Oregon if I want to travel to Oregon. And so they, they didn't, they didn't hold back from going out to eat or you know, or even wearing a mask a lot of the time, they just did whatever the they want it. And, you know, God bless them too, because I, you know, I can appreciate, I can appreciate that, you know, liberty. It was a little irresponsible, I thought to some extent, but kind of I even still, I think. Yeah, I think it was interesting to see the diversity of opinions, because then there was my sister who does have an autoimmune disorder. And she was extremely fearful, like, the whole time, she didn't even let me see my nephews, or come in close contact with my nephews for most of those two years. And that that was sad to me. And she even like, really went off on my cousin, who he and I both decided not to get vaccinated. And she just, it was awful to see kind of that family, you know, tension. And that's interesting, too, because like my cousin is this son of the two that were like not wanting to be restricted about anything. So not only did he want to get this, you know, to be restricted, he also didn't want to abide by the majority. And I certainly didn't feel safe with getting the vaccine personally. So I just decided not to do that. But yeah, it was it was kind of divisive in family ties. Because we did decide to get together, Rachel did come to pass over this year. And then her son eventually not during Passover, probably I think it was like two months later, one of her sons got sick with COVID. And she did not get sick. So it's just you know, I think for her, it's for everybody. It's been kind of mysterious to some extent of like, who gets sick, who doesn't get sick? Like, what can we do? What's important to you know, is it important, is it necessary to get vaccinated and, of course, like most of government and, and the Western medical community, you're saying, You need to get vaccinated, and you need to have a vaccination card. And you know, if you don't, your your movement around the world is going to be restricted. And you know, and that's also based on germ theory, which I questioned myself, and I have colleagues and professors who don't believe that that's, that's the that's the presiding issue, like germ theory was debunked by Pasteur before he died even. So, yeah, so it's interesting.

Kit Heintzman 34:31
Love to hear more about your understanding of germ theory and how you saw others in our western medical perspective, referencing it in the context of COVID.

Juju Urcis 34:42
Yeah, I mean, germ theory is basically the contagion you know, as though you're going to if if this thing is present, you're gonna get sick, like, you know, don't come in contact with people who are sick in that and that can be true for a lot a lot of people, especially people who have, you know, compromised immune systems, which, why do they have compromised immune systems in the first place? You know, like, there's, it's like tracking all of it. Kind of, it's, it's there. So there's terrain theory and germ theory, and they're kind of sometimes linked together. Sometimes there's one or the other terrain theory is more of the body, like, the body's condition before exposure to anything. So, you know, whether a person is predisposed to getting ill, or they have a weakened immune system, or they are overweight, or, you know, have diabetes have lung cancer, or any sort of lung illness, like if they've had pneumonia, if they are, you know, experiencing bronchitis, you know, the chronic smoker for that matter, you know, there are certain things that leave us predisposed for illness. And, and that is a big part of whether or not a person who is exposed to a virus or bacteria or any of those things, like that's, that's a part of what leaves them susceptible. And then there's also I mean, this is good, I'm just gonna throw it in because it's it is it does play a role. But there's another part of this idea that a virus or a bacteria or anything that's inhabiting Earth and our community or our immediate surroundings that that we we shouldn't we can't like we can't back away from it. Like we shouldn't find ourselves separate like this to separate ourselves from our surrounding is to come at war it really with it, and that there has to be some way of unification and if not unification, there's some kind of like, you know, like a reciprocity even. There's it's a weird thing to think that we are separate from nature, or that we need to separate from it, we even need to villainize that we need to villainize a bacteria or a virus or a parasite for that matter. But there is yeah, there is something about like finding the balance with it. I'm no expert. I'm just this is my, you know, philosophy. From what I've learned thus far.

Kit Heintzman 37:40
I'd be grateful if you could share more about what those conversations with your sister look like around the tensions and you're making different decisions about vaccination.

Juju Urcis 37:52
Yeah. Well, one of them, I remember very clearly was talking about abortion actually, and, and also having the right like the right to personal, having the, like, you know, the the freedom of the body, like you, you know, making choices, the freedom of choice of what happens to your body, and to mandate that people are vaccinated is, in a similar way, kind of saying that, you know, people should not have a choice to whether or not they have abortion. And interestingly enough, we find ourselves now abortion is illegal. I mean, it's just like, Yeah, I saw that one coming, you know? Yeah, you have to get vaccinated. Yeah, you can't have an abortion, because, you know, that's a medical procedure that we are against now. So it's just, yeah, that was one conversation. Of course, she was not into that. She was like, Oh, of course, people need to have choice to have an abortion. Well, people should have choice to be vaccinated. But yeah, it was started to become so authoritarian the vaccination issue that at some point, I think she started to kind of be more understanding. But at first it was like community health or, like, you know, the health of the mass overrules the health of the individual. And I didn't, I didn't feel like I could be fully on board with that.

Kit Heintzman 39:44
Would you share more about the way that restrictions personally impacted you?

Juju Urcis 39:55
Well, I mean, I couldn't go to concerts sometimes that you know, kind of it more pissed me off when they told me they didn't like, write it out on the, you know, I bought I bought a ticket and it didn't say on the website, you know, you must have vaccinate proof of vaccination or negative COVID test. And that makes sense. Like I did have a couple of times where I took a negative, you know, I took a test and I came out negative I just brought that with me and that was pretty, you know, I could, thank you, you know, it's like, okay, thank you for that option opportunity to, to have variety to have my choice, honored and respected. And yeah, so I think it was mainly just like concerts. Sometimes, there was a person's birthday party that required proof of vaccination. And honestly, I was just like, you know, that's okay. I don't need to go. And I think travel at first, but then that was, you know, now you don't need that so much. Maybe international travel, I haven't tried traveling to like Japan, so I probably would need it if I went to Japan or something. But I honestly didn't feel other than a few of those restrictions. I didn't, I didn't mind wearing a mask. I never minded wearing a mask. So I kind of like I kind of felt I wouldn't want to wear a mask for like, you know, if I were a medical prefer, like in, you know, like a medicine, medical office and have to wear like all the stuff like that would bother me, I think to wear that all day, I wouldn't actually even noticing the pulses of a lot of my clients, the lung pulse was often weak during COVID. And not for people necessarily that had COVID It was just from wearing a mask all the time. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 41:53
How easy was access to things like masks, but also testing where you've been?

Juju Urcis 41:59
Masks were very easy to come by. But there were a few times, like I'd say at least three times when I needed to buy COVID tests and they weren't available in the pharmacy. So I ended up having, you know, buying a bunch online. And again, like I hate to say it, but it just felt like such a scam, like, oh no $25 for a COVID test that you know, in any sort of like, organized, you know, healthcare system, you think that the government would subsidize or that there would be something like, like, why are they caught, why do they cost so much they don't cost that, like, they don't need to cost that much and or, like you should be able to get those at like a community clinic somewhere for free. I just thought that that was just such a scam.

Kit Heintzman 42:54
Would you be willing to share some of the information, feelings, whatever it was that brought you to the ultimate decision not to become vac, vaccinated?

Juju Urcis 43:06
Ultimate decisions? First of all, I was just, I mean, my my skepticism of the pharmaceutical industry and of, you know, the virus itself like I had, I got sick, if I hadn't gotten natural antibodies. If that wasn't an option, then I would have been very clearly Yeah, maybe, you know, maybe it's important, like if you know, like cholera or something, you know, I would I think I have a vaccination in my body, you know, from from cholera, or for the cholera. But I just, I think if my body can produce natural antibodies, I'm going to go that route. And I did, I did get COVID And I did go that route. And there were interestingly enough, you know, it didn't it was like the there was a period of time I think it did change at some point that they didn't, that the medical community did not accept that. Getting COVID You You know what, that you still had to get vaccinated at least within like, a period of time, like three months or something like that. And I, I just yeah, I didn't I think it was more of the authoritarian aspect of it that it started to really like turn me off from it. There was a point where I was more open to it. Yeah, like when I thought that if, if it was really that intense of a of an illness that you know, it meant getting the vaccination or not or getting sick. Um, like if I couldn't get sick and develop natural antibodies that that, that made it somewhat more legitimate to get a vaccination, but honestly, like, I just I'm also I'm also aware that a lot of vaccinations, they have additives in there or allergens and like random crap that they put it into vaccinations that are not things that I want in my body. And yeah, the sort of the period of time of them developing the vaccination just didn't make sense to me that I could trust, like, you know, if it was like, again, yeah, like 30 years or something down the line. Oh, yeah, we have this vaccination now that you can use, I do even get the flu vaccination. You know, like, I don't believe in doing that. I want. I don't, it's just not my preference.

Kit Heintzman 45:59
What changed with your acupuncture practice, over this period of time?

Juju Urcis 46:04
Um, what changed? Well, I mean, I was really getting, like, professionally, I was just getting started. So I had to wear a mask from the get go. And yeah, I don't know if anything really changed.

Kit Heintzman 46:31
Would you share a bit about what it was like when you contracted COVID, during the pandemic?

Juju Urcis 46:40
yeah, well, cuz I got it twice. And they were very different each time. Or I got it twice, right. Like, I'll have I have a whole other theory around the second time because I don't think I got anything. I think there was some latent. I know for a fact because none of my housemates at the time, I actually was living with three other people. And I was in close contact because we had just gone backpacking with one of my housemates. Anyway, and they didn't get sick, that no one else got sick. And I have a theory of why I got sick that time. So the first time I got it was horrible. I like at first it felt like a sinus infection. And but then I just like, I just like could not get off. I was camping at the time. I had gotten I gone to like a concert. It wasn't exactly concert was called the cure time. Are you familiar with cure time? No? It's like devotional singing, but it's more of like a Hindu devotional singing group. And I went to one of those. And I was playing my didgeridoo. And then that weekend, I went camping. And it was while I was camping, that I started developing symptoms. And yeah, interestingly enough, it was kind of like both both times it was recently either camping or backpacking. And so yeah, I got, I started to started to get some kind of like sinus infection. And then I went to go get tested. And it wasn't till after I went to go get tested that I felt I felt really strange. I started having chills and fever. And then I just lay down I did not want to get up and I started getting like really like sad and just like, all my energy was like all my energy just wanted to collapse. And and then, within a couple of days, I wasn't feeling that way. I don't know exactly. I wasn't I did not take any medication. I took some herbs. But um, yeah, this was like a year and a half ago, or was it? It was, it was around this time was about a year ago that I had it this way. And yeah, I mean, I just I basically isolated I stayed I rented a space. So I could be in isolation, because at that time, I was just transitioning from the where I was living to a house with other people. So I decided to just rent this space apart. And I couldn't sleep very well. My period was really off. So it was just like a very disorienting time, I think. And I was sick for about a week. And then I started getting better. I was I was better within 10 days. Yeah, but then I definitely had some lingering kind of lassitude. And little it did leave me a little bit like depleted. So like for a while, yeah. And then the last time I got it, I had just been backpacking with my housemate and we got back. And I started having Yeah, like kind of some, not even coughing, or it was a little was more of like a, like a fever, I started having like a sore throat and a fever, which was totally different than the first time. But my, my understanding is that the COVID like virus can, I mean, like any virus can can go dormant in your body. And I have a feeling that it went dormant in my body, like I didn't fully expel it. And like, just like tuberculosis, I mean, all sorts of tuberculosis is bacteria, but it can do the same thing. But like the herpes virus does the same thing. And if it's not, like cleared fully from the, from the, usually it hangs out, like in the spine somewhere. But I have a feeling, not just a feeling, I have a theory that the COVID hangs out in fat cells. And I burned a lot of fat that week. It was a it was a hard backpacking trip. And I have a theory that from burning that much fat and like kind of really pushing myself that the latent virus was able to kind of get expressed. And so that was sort of a second wind of it.

Kit Heintzman 51:33
Have you been developing that theory with any of your medical mentors, the people you work?

Juju Urcis 51:38
Definitely. Yeah, definitely. And that's also, you know, there's this whole other aspect if you do any research on, like, the fat cells in like, and why people who are overweight tend to get COVID more predominantly than other people's because COVID has an affinity for, for fat cells. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 52:03
You had mentioned treating patients who had COVID, wat was that like, what did you notice in their bodies?

Juju Urcis 52:10
Um, well, I usually didn't treat them while, they had active COVID. But I treated after when they were not symptomatic and tested negative for residual symptoms, and it was often for lassitude, or just low energy, sometimes for more of a depressive experience, feeling depressed, and just like not as motivated to go about their daily lives. Some people did have other you know, like physical lung issues, coughing or shortness of breath, things like that, that just would linger. But yeah, so the Chinese medicine perspective on COVID is that it's a Tie Yin condition, which means that it affects the lung and the spleen organ systems. And that's just like, Absolutely so clear. For a person who studies Chinese medicine, you're like, oh, yeah, of course, that's the case. You know, that's also, you know, when you see people, the lung and spleen that has a lot to do with, you know, any sort of respiratory illness, but also digestive illness also that like lassitude can is directly correlated with the spleen. Any sort of phlegm or flemmi condition, including overweight, including like sinus congestion. All of that is it lies within those, those two, the Tie Yin system.

Kit Heintzman 53:51
I'm curious, other than the pandemic, what have been some of the other big political issues, social issues that have been on your mind and heart over the last couple of years?

Juju Urcis 54:00
Well, I mean, it's, interestingly, like, Black Lives Matter kind of just took off, you know, like, that really took a big leap, it seemed shortly after, you know, after March of 2020. And that was, that was kind of a beautiful, like, I guess. catalyst in a sense for, for people of color getting more recognition, or even more, you know, more rights or something. It's not like they got more rights, but just more like there was more awareness around like, what it's like to be a marginalized person of color. Even the woman I lived with who was super, like super white, and, you know, like, privileged, like one of the more privileged people that I knew, actually, that she was even like, I'm willing to start reading certain books and have more awareness on what it might be like to be a person of color. And like, just having more regard for that. I feel like I've always had sort of higher awareness of people of color. Partly because I grew up in Orange County and like, I don't know, Orange County, not itself, but just like the part of Orange County where I live, there was a lot of more Asian community, a lot more Latino community. And I yeah, I grew up speaking Spanish. One of the first people I ever dated was black. I mean, I just had, like, my own curiosity, I think to have what that is like to be a person of color, and also to be a marginalized person of color. You know, it's always been like, I've always had a soft spot for that and curiosity. And so, so that was interesting. And, and important. And let's see. Yeah, there was also I think, at some point there was, there was more space exploration. And that troubles me, I don't love that that kind of came up around that same, like in the last couple, two or three, two and a half years, three years now. I think that was really bothersome to me that while we were in the pandemic, that there was like, kind of a green light to explore space more and yeah, that I just, I also feel like there's just been so much more of this division of wealth that kind of accentuated that that's troublesome to me. I dont know, is that enough?

Kit Heintzman 57:05
Everything you do is enough, you're already I promise. follow up questions. I, what does it like watching that woman you are living with start to dig into those readings and asks that question those questions. What was it like to witness that?

Juju Urcis 57:24
I mean, I had to hold myself back from being judgmental, you know, like, it, she she was pretty, I think the word is, like, almost like precocious, like a child's like, oh, like, I never knew that. Or, you know, I have no experience with that. It's like, yeah. Um, and at the same time, just like really proud of her for doing that, you know, of reading and, but there was also an interesting moment of denial. Also a weird connection to like, royalty, this person had like, like kings and queens, like, like, that was, that was okay. You know, I'm just like, No, I'm sorry, Kingship, Queenship is not okay. And look at all the people that suffer from those, you know, that that mentality. So I guess, part of me was just like, holding space for growth, you know, both parties for me and for her and yeah, and happy that she was even open to taking a different perspective. Of course, she, you know, she didn't like make any movement to connect with people of color on a physical level, just from the reading, you know?

Kit Heintzman 58:52
And is there anything more you could say on sort of the unease about an increased interest? Sorry, an increased interest in space exploration that it had that you had been witnessing at a bigger sort of structural level?

Juju Urcis 59:09
Sure. Well, I think a lot of what's disrupted sort of, I think there is a natural order in the world and I think the Chinese kind of picked up on that long time ago. I know for a fact that that observing cycles in nature is what has and putting into practice the the theories of like observing nature and how to that how can one live a healthier life or you know, life of a balance that exploring like the and that's that's traditional Chinese, right, like the modern Chinese now, there's a lot has a lot, not that there's a lot more of, oh well Western and Westerners are doing it, let's do it, the young, you know, the younger society, let's, let's like, get on board with that. But I think, yeah, like the wise tradition of Chinese medicine and also the wisdom of other cultures to there isn't this, like, explore into space, Like, we have to, I don't know, there's, there's a limit to what is healthy, I guess. I just don't think that. And I hate to, like, say natural, because I don't want to say natural either, because I do believe that, you know, human, whatever we do, it's natural, because we're just, you know, we are still a part of nature. But I also, you know, there's like an excess, there's a lot there is this idea of, of excess of anything excess ambition, excess sitting in front of the television, you know, there's just like a point when you just realize that that's just just not looking healthy. And I have I have a suspicion, you know, that it's, at some point, it'll be clear, it's not, it's still not clear to me why I just kind of know, that, you know, putting that kind of resource into, you know, places that require, you know, require such a risky, and like, you know, I just, I don't have a logical explanation, I just know that pushing the boundaries like that. It's, it can disrupt, I mean, even even exploring the Arctic to some extent, you know, like, we need to do that with care, you know, we can't just be reckless about where, you know, what we're exploring here, and I can't tell you what it is exactly, that makes me think it's not wise, but I know that it, it doesn't seem wise to me.

Kit Heintzman 1:02:19
What brought you to traditional Chinese medicine?

Juju Urcis 1:02:24
I was interested in alternative health care. And like, I think it was in my early 20s, I was working on a Chinese pear or an Asian pear farm. And I started reading more about, about Chinese culture and Asian, you know, it just got drawn in. I don't know why exact it wasn't the pears. You know, maybe maybe the pears had an impact on my, you know, understanding of the world or something. I also started really getting interested in like, human error and natural systems and, and Asian culture has a lot of history with understanding natural systems. So I just knew that the way that Western medicine worked was not working for me, like it didn't, it didn't draw me in at all. And I wanted to get into medicine of some kind. I was really curious about health and healing. And so I got acupuncture for the first time when I was living in Sebastopol. And it's also just so interesting like the people that we that I've met that kind of just like one thing after another it's just so synchronistic you know?

Kit Heintzman 1:03:52
What does the word health mean to you?

Juju Urcis 1:03:55
Well, health to me is feeling well, there's like a level of peace with health a level where I, I. You know, I feel enabled to be happy and healthy or happy and vibrant. I think there's a vibrancy about life there's like a and a presence. Where like, like healthy body for me is is feeling enabled to do to to, to not be in pain first of all right. I don't I feel like not being in pain is a big part of health. I feel that clarity and ability to inhabit the body in a in a way that feels free and easy. But also inhabiting the mind free and easy, I think, I think mind health, emotional health and body health are definitely interrelated. And, and there is like a level of ease and not, you know, absence of pain. And if there is pain that like even that can be healthy if if we're seeing the pain as more communicating with the body, rather than, like, objectifying the pain and wanting it to go away, to like, just seeing how we're constantly in like communication with ourselves.

Kit Heintzman 1:05:35
What does the word safety mean to you?

Juju Urcis 1:05:38
Safety? Wow, safety to me, is I think there's something about feeling resourced feel it's a feeling there's definitely safety is more feeling to me than it is like, I mean, physically safe. Again, like, absence of pain, you know, if you're feeling if you're, if a person is constricted or confined, or like, you know, bound in some way, like that can feel unsafe, even if they're not, you know, mentally feeling unsafe is is a part of, you know, a physical safety in the body. So, I think a person can feel unsafe, but not really be unsafe, too. So I think it's, I think it's the feeling of safety is a feeling of freedom. And then I also think safety is resource and feeling resourced. And ease. I think that it has to do with trust that you can, you know, that you can rely or just not even rely, but just trust, like, feeling the ease of trust, and that can be in another person, being safe around somebody, or even just being or just trusting Hashem. You know, like, that's a form of safety, like, I live in, you know, in the woods, like, There's windows, like, couldn't be people around, but I'm just trying to I trust, you know, I trust that that I'm safe. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 1:07:36
There's been such a narrow conversation about what safety means in the confines of COVID. Thinking about that, like, tiny conversation, what are some of the things you've been doing to make yourself feel safer, and to communicate those needs about safety with others?

Juju Urcis 1:07:54
I have no, I have no problems feeling safe. I don't have to communicate. I mean, what would I have to communicate? Um, I don't need you to wear a mask if you don't want to. I mean, if you want to, that's, that's probably helpful. But yeah, I think a lot of it comes in my trust. And also my ability to communicate with, you know, yeah, when I have some issue, but it's not usually about safety. But communication is definitely important. In fact, I will also tell you that I will tell everybody, that that I started going to a weekly nonviolent communication meeting online with COVID times COVID times. So I felt like that actually really was another gift of, of the experience. Because I had been wanting to join groups of nonviolent communication. And I just never really made time for it. Like even the time that I lived in Santa Cruz, I went to maybe like three workshops total. And in this in this setting of, you know, the zoom, I was, well, this is Google, but zoom, I was able to make a weekly commitment to doing that. And that felt, that gave me a lot of peace. Actually, it was a spiritual group within nonviolent communication. I met every Friday. And I just I love the people. I love the host, there were two hosts. I just I felt so held in that group and so safe and on an emotional level, I felt super safe. So I think that having that kind of weekly connection on an emotional safe way, you know, and also just like being seen If a person doesn't if I don't feel seen, I don't feel safe. I guess, you know, I guess that's more on like interpersonal level. If a person doesn't like actually see me for who I am, I can't trust them as much as I'd like to. It just doesn't feel safe. But on an overall level like, do I feel safe in my home? Do I feel safe in the car where I'm going? Do I still feel safe at work with people who come in with, you know, who knows what? Sure, I trust, I have to trust if I didn't trust that there was some, you know, order to this worlds that I might live in a constant state of fear. And that would suck. I feel I feel for those people. It's not it's not fair, you know, that they that they can't trust and I can.

Kit Heintzman 1:10:55
As much in your communication style changed after doing those workshops?

Juju Urcis 1:11:00
Um, I'm definitely I'm definitely more. So this is what's interesting, right? I kind of developed my own understanding that like nonviolent communication is some what about what we say. But it's also about what what's said to us. And how can I interpret what's said to us to be, how can I de escalate what's being said to me, so that I don't feel so reactive? And I feel like that's been more useful to me than like, trying to, like, oh, how do I say this to this person in the right way that I'm not like, hurting their feelings? You know, like, Yeah, that might be successful sometimes, or could seem fake, you know, could seem like, I'm trying too hard. And this person, like, you know, might not receive that very well. I think there's a lot to be said about seeing somebody else too. And like, how can I acknowledge that I've heard somebody else, you know, that's helpful to acknowledge how I can, you know, oh, I've said, Okay, well, I'm hearing you say this and like, and yeah, being a better listener, has helped. I think being involved in NBC helps me be a better listener.

Kit Heintzman 1:12:15
How are you feeling about the immediate future?

Juju Urcis 1:12:21
One day at a time, I tell this to all my friends one day at a time, you know, like, finding the joy days each day. Yeah, immediate future, I think, yeah, I think I kind of plan my life only a few months at a time. You know? I have, I also have to have some, like, bigger wishes sometimes, like I have, you know, and I if I don't have some kind of like bigger dream or wish, I think that can make me feel a little less optimistic. But um, yeah, I think honestly, I feel like I'm so blessed to have Chinese medicine in my world, and also to live in a really beautiful place. If, you know, if I didn't have these things, I think life would be a lot more gloomy.

Kit Heintzman 1:13:18
What are some of your hopes for a longer term future?

Juju Urcis 1:13:24
I want to see more herbs grown domestically and purchase like the herbal market for Chinese medicine. That's a big one for me. I do want to travel, I want to go to Europe, and Asia someday. I'd love to study with other practitioners continue to learn. I'd love to go to Israel, and learn Hebrew. I know a little Hebrew. But I'd like to have more time really like with the language and maybe conversational but definitely mystical. I want to learn more of the mystical language.

Kit Heintzman 1:14:07
Who's been supporting you over the last few years?

Juju Urcis 1:14:12
Like, in what way?

Kit Heintzman 1:14:15
Emotionally, who do you turn to when you need someone to turn to?

Juju Urcis 1:14:19
Yeah, um, strangely, I have my dad and I like we go through, like phases when I just I can't, I can't hear what he has to say you know, like, or I'm so resistant to him, telling me what I need to do that I just shut down. And our relationship has changed a lot over the years since COVID. Because there was a period of time when I told them I just can't talk to you. Sorry, I don't want you to tell me what to do. And even if you don't think you're doing it, I'm feeling that that's what's happening. And I think our Yeah, our relationship has definitely grown tremendously and he's a always been a person that's like, always there for me. So yeah, definitely him and a few of my friends who I've been close with, I wouldn't even say I see them all that often. But it's interesting that a lot of the people that I would say, I can, I can sort of any, anytime I need somebody to talk with, they're, you know, they're willing if they're not out of the country, because one of them's out of the country right now. But, and he's a monk, one of my friends. He's, he's a, he's a funny rabbit. He's like, Yeah, just just a really good soul to to talk to. And I had it, I've had some relationships, to kind of break down sadly, like friends who I was really close with. I even had a couple like romantic relationships that I just like, how did that go wrong? But one of them was based on, you know, we kind of had a distant thing. Like, he was in another place. And I was, and we thought, oh, let's make this work. And no it didn't work. And then yeah, I and the other one was actually a former teacher. And that was interesting. But, um, yeah, and they were people that I got really close to right at the beginning of COVID. You know, it was, it was really hard, I think, to have closeness with with people during COVID. And then for that to be gone, like, that was pretty devastating. And then and then yeah, kind of like around the second year, the one of my closest friends who had a childhood a baby, ever since then, too. I mean, that's pretty natural. I think people have babies. And if I've, you know, those who don't have babies, it's it. Diverting paths, sort of. So that's been kind of hard.

Kit Heintzman 1:17:11
What are some of the ways that you've been taking care of yourself?

Juju Urcis 1:17:16
I've definitely been doing better with that. I get I do get acupuncture regularly. I started getting massage more regularly. We have, I mean, like such beauty here that I definitely get outdoors regularly, like couple times a week. I mean, it's different with working schedule to really like, be outdoors all the time. But the first first year of COVID, I was out so I was outdoors, like every day doing something gardening then was a lot more still do a little gardening now. I picked up cross stitch. That's something I like to do kind of this nice time for myself. I really do think that like making time for therapy, or like last two years ago, it was it was the weekly NBC group. That's, that's been really supportive to me. And like really, therapeutic. Painting can also be good for me writing and yeah, and definitely the the community, the Jewish community, the Friday night rituals of Shabbat and I keep Shabbat every Saturday, turn off my phone and really have time to connect with with the higher source. And oh yeah, and then also my horse rescue visits. That's been amazing. I started doing that last last fall. And I just I feel so blessed to be around the horses and just to like to get that mentality of the, of the herd mind. And also of just like non human mind. I really get to be in there and they're like, mind state I feel when I'm there.

Kit Heintzman 1:19:28
Did anything feel different about holding Shabbat during the pandemic?

Juju Urcis 1:19:35
Yeah, I used to get together with other friends more. And then yeah, during pandemic I didn't get together with as many people or sometimes with nobody or just myself and you know, online. Yeah, I never really did online Shabbat group. In fact, I never used to turn my computer on for Shabbat. You know, use just have no devices. So I had to make an exception to do that. And I like that. I'm glad I'm doing that.

Kit Heintzman 1:20:11
Do you anticipate it changing anything about how you go forward with Shabbat as we move into a more endemic world or post pandemic world or whoever wants to sort of mark time?

Juju Urcis 1:20:22
Yeah. I might continue, you know, there isn't a whole lot of Jewish community in Nevada County. So I mean, if I were living in Berkeley or something, I'd probably go to wilderness Torah or or not wilderness or the urban Nagama something. But we don't really have that here plus [inaudible] it is. It's kind of all over the world now. So it's nice to to, gather online together, I just it feels it feels really unified. It feels like the the coven.

Kit Heintzman 1:21:07
Coming to the end of my questions, and they sort of take a harsh turn. The first is, what do you think people in the humanities in the social sciences can be doing right now to help us understand the human and social experience of the last couple of years?

Juju Urcis 1:21:34
I don't know. Tell me what are some of the things and maybe I'll come up with a tail tail dovetail or something after that?

Kit Heintzman 1:21:46
I don't know I really hold this question. As an as someone as an insider who gets to speak to people about their lived experiences of the past, I mean, an insider in humanities and social sciences scholarship, who feels very versed in the kinds of questions that can get asked and what is a really broad array of fields. I really hold this question as a chance for the people who are affected by the world we live in, to tell us what we could and should be doing to better for them. And so like, I have 1,000 ideas, but really what I, the reason I asked this question is precisely because, I mean, it wasn't at the beginning, but is at this point, certainly because the the response you gave is in fact, so common. And I think that there's a very important lesson for us in the humanities and the social sciences to hear that exactly. As it is. So I'm not sure that really helps you then come back with the answer, but I do hope it affirms sort of like the perfectionists of the answer you gave.

Juju Urcis 1:23:02
Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 1:23:06
Is there anything you wish you'd learned more about in history when you were growing up?

Juju Urcis 1:23:17
Yeah, I would have liked to learn more about the native peoples like really learn more and I dont know, I feel like history is so subjective. You know, like I never learned about the women in the Torah until so much later in my life or if I did it was like you know, two or three women that were exalted in Torah so yeah. I learned more about like the Oregon Trail than I did about Native people. Which I find is kind of sad. But what else? Yeah, I think more more diversity for sure. I want to you know, know more I don't want to know just about the white people you know. And yeah, I guess diversity just to be a lot was just to give like a range of experiences. And, you know, people from a variety of cultures and economic experiences and family histories and you know, just There's just so much like there's so much variety out there. And it's also interesting. We don't have to be bored with the same story. Yeah.

Kit Heintzman 1:25:18
Can you think of the pandemic, this pandemic as a historic experience?

Juju Urcis 1:25:25
It's interesting. I mean, I feel like I feel like I kind of, okay, so we went into the pandemic, with so much. Like, what do you call those? Um, you know, the TV where people like to tell about themselves? What's that called? Like? Reality, like reality TV. I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, the world kind of went there. I feel like the world kind of went into this, like, Ooh, let's make life exciting. And, you know, I don't, because it's not the first time that there was, you know, like, widespread illness. And I don't know, it just seems like, like, so much of what, you know, we've kind of been through these last two years has, has kind of amplified the self and like, amplified this, like, wanting to provide, like, there's like, some kind of entertainment component to it even. Or people have everybody having an opinion and like, having this. I don't know, like, even I mean, I actually haven't been on Facebook for longer than the pandemic for like, five years. And so I don't even know what that would have been, like, if I had, you know, what I mean? And this is just like, my mind coming up with like, gosh, yeah, it does kind of seem like reality TV just like blew, you know, blew up. And I just Yeah, I just find it to, I almost seems like, like the government utilized this possibility of illness to kind of, to just, I don't know, it's just seems so bizarre to me. And like, I don't, I don't know what it's like to be in other countries during all of this. But my sense is that they handled it differently. So I guess, like, I would be curious to read the history of the pandemic, like, hear other peoples from other countries, you know, especially like, you know, non Euro, non European descent, kind of like what I just don't feel like other people will probably dramatized as much as we did. That would be my my sense of it, and that people didn't lose as much contact to each other. I mean, this is all just like my, you know, like, I'm totally projecting all of this, it may or may not even be real.

Kit Heintzman 1:28:15
I'd like you to imagine speaking to some historian in the future, someone far enough away from our moment that they have no lived experience of this at all. What would you ask them to like hold and remember about this moment, as they go forth with their study about the pandemic, what would you tell them that they even if it's not the thing they're studying, what would you tell them they can't forget about right now?

Juju Urcis 1:28:57
What can't they forget? That the vaccinations were mandatory That's it. No choice must get vaccinated.

Kit Heintzman 1:29:29
I want to thank you so much for the generosity of your time and the kindness and vulnerability of your answers. Those are all of the questions I know how to ask at this moment, but if there's anything you want to share that my questions haven't made room for, please take some space and share that.

Juju Urcis 1:29:55
I do think that more people I have sought alternative medicine, like, meditation is grown yoga has grown like my dad started doing yoga. You know, like, I think I think people have really not everybody, but a lot of people have really sought more tools to find peace of mind. I mean, yeah, I would, I wouldn't even say, see, this is just me, I would say COVID was a gift, in some ways, you know? And I think it's just a matter of orienting to like, to light that way of, you know, are you cursed? Or is, you know, are we all just cursed? Or are we all just like navigating one moment to the next and seeking purpose and, and connection in some way? You know, it's just, yeah, it's sad sometimes that that people don't see that.

Kit Heintzman 1:31:01
Thank you so much.

Juju Urcis 1:31:06
Thanks.