Holly Settles Oral History, 2021/04/22

Andrew Butler conducts this interview Holly Settles, on April 22 at 10:04am. This is a part of the Covid 19 parject by Indiana University–Purdue University Indianapolis. This oral history interview discusses their experience through the covid 19 pandemic.

04/22/2021

Andrew Butler

Holly Settles

English Clothing & Accessories

English Home & Family Life

English Food & Drink

English Health & Wellness

mask

change

vaccine passport

work from home

meeting

shortage

farm

essential worker

restaurant

grocery store

professional shopper

IUPUI

Jason Kelly

This item was bulk uploaded as part of the Covid-19 Oral History Project. JK 10/27/2021

Second interviewer: Maddie Hellmich

01/18/2022

04/08/2022

05/21/2022

03/30/2023

04/22/2021

Andrew Butler

Holly Settles

46228

Indianapolis

Indiana

United States of America

Audio

English

01:19:36

Byline: This interview was recorded as part of The Covid 19 Oral History Project, a project of the IUPUI Arts and Humanities Institute associated with The Journal of a Plague Year: A Covid 19 Archive.

Andrew Butler 11:31
Okay now we are recording. My name is Andrew Butler. I'm here with Maddie Hellmich and like the date is April 22 the time is 10:04am. I am in New Palestine. Okay, now I want to briefly review the informed consent and deed of gift document, you signed. This interview is for the COVID-19 oral history project associated with the journal the plague year. A COVID-19 archive. The COVID-19 Oral History Project is a rapid response oral history, focused on archiving the lived experience of the COVID-19 Pandemic we have designed this project so that professional researchers and broader public can create and upload their oral histories to our open access and open-source database. This study will help us collect narratives and understandings about the COVID about COVID-19, as well as help us better understand the impacts of the pandemic over time. The recordings demographic information, and the verbatim transcripts we deposited in the Journal of the Plague Year a COVID-19 archive in the Indiana University Public Library system for the use of researchers and the general public. Do you have any questions about the project that I can answer?

Holly 13:26
No, I think it's clear. Thank you.

Andrew Butler 13:29
Taking part in the study is voluntary, you may choose not to take part, you may leave at any time, leaving the study will not result in any penalty or loss of benefits to which you're entitled, your decision whether or not to participate in the study will not affect your current or future relationships with Indiana University IUPUI or the IUPUI Arts and Humanities Institute, participating in this project, means that your interviews will be recorded in digital video and or audio format and may be transcribed the recordings and possible transcriptions of my interviews, copies of any supplementary documents or additional photos that you wish to share, and the informed consent and deed of gift, may be deposited in a journal of the Plague Year a COVID-19 archive in the Indiana University Library System. It will be available to researchers in the general public. Your name and other means of identification will not be confidential. Do you have any questions?

Holly 14:24
No, I understand.

Andrew Butler 14:26
Okay. In addition to your signed document, would you please offer a verbal confirmation that you understand and agree to these terms.

Holly 14:35
I understand and agree to these terms.

Andrew Butler 14:37
Thank you. I'm also asking you to verbally confirm that you have agreed that your interview we made available under the following license. The COVID-19 Oral History Project, the Journal of the Plague Year, a COVID-19 archive, and the trustees of Indiana University, IU acting through its agents, employees, or representatives, has an unlimited right to reproduce use exhibit display perform broadcasts, create derivative works from and distribute the oral history of materials, in any manner or media now existing or hereafter developed in perpetuity throughout the world. I agree that the oral history materials may be used by the voices from the waterways and IU, including its assigned to transferees for any purpose, including but not limited to marketing, advertising, publicity or other promotional purposes. I agree that IU will have final editorial authority over the use of the oral history materials and waive any right to inspect or approve any future use of the oral history materials. Moreover, I agree, the public has the right to use the materials under the terms of fair use.

Holly 15:45
I agree.

Andrew Butler 15:48
Finally, I want to ask for a verbal confirmation that you have agreed that your interview will be made available to the public immediately.

Holly 15:57
I agree.

Andrew Butler 15:59
Okay, that's it with the legal stuff now we'll move on to the Introduction. Okay, first question. This is, we'll start with some background questions just to establish some things. What is your name and what are the primary things you do on a day-to-day basis, for example, jobs, activities, etc.

Holly 16:23
My name is Holly Settles and day to day activities, Monday through Friday. Yes, I, I go to work, we're working from home since the shutdown from COVID. Otherwise, I just routine things around the house. I cook I clean I take care of the cats. Pretty boring, but my routine activities weekends. I really tried to get out in the yard and do some gardening. Occasionally, you know, do zoom meetings with our friends just to keep in touch, but pretty much that's it.

Andrew Butler 17:12
Okay. Where do you live and what is it like to live there?

Holly 17:17
I live in Indianapolis, Indiana. I live in a small area called Northern States on the northwest side it's an old established neighborhood. So, it is lovely, to live here. We have old mature trees in the yards. Our neighbors have most of us have lived in our houses for 20 plus years, so we all need to know each other. There's no through traffic through our neighborhood so it's very quiet. You know you can easily get out and walk around the neighborhood and run into people you know. It's just a really pleasant place to be. It's not far, you know, 10 minutes down I 65 and I can be in Indianapolis, so we're very close to anything going on downtown if we want to go to a theater or out to eat. We just live in a really nice area in Indianapolis, it's convenient to everything. And yet it's very quiet. You know, it's an old established neighborhood. So, we got the best of both worlds here.

Andrew Butler 18:39
When you learned when you first learned about COVID-19 What were your thoughts about it. How have your thoughts changed since then?

Holly 18:47
I guess when you first heard about it. If I think back to the very first time you know there was probably something on the news about how this was in China, mostly, and, you know, I didn't really give it a lot of thought. Kind of like when the SARS epidemic happened. It didn't really impact the US and I thought it would be more like that. So, probably heard about it. Oh, you know, December 2019 ish, they started saying that there was a novel virus in China, and you went okay. We had already had a plan to go travel in January, so we did, thank goodness we did that early. We went down to Costa Rica and then after we came back in February, you know, we're starting to be more of a, and now it's in the US and now it's spreading. That's when you started thinking really differently about it, that the potential. At that time, it was still just potential, you know, you didn't change anything you were doing, you still went to work, you still did. But it was a bigger blip on the radar screen. I don't think it was really impactful, until the day they announced at work, that, you know, everybody goes home and don't come back work from home for the next again, two weeks we thought, yeah, two weeks, four weeks it'll be over. And as time dragged on, of course, the attitudes towards a changed both, you know, I think for everybody individually and then, you know, globally, but initially Yeah, initially it was like, oh, no, there's another novel virus in China, and until we went into a lockdown. It really didn't change anything about my life. You know, didn't, didn't really think it would be this impactful. Okay.

Andrew Butler 21:10
What issues have concerns you most about the COVID 19 pandemic.

Holly 21:17
Oh, issues that concern me most, that it wasn't taken seriously at the beginning, when it became, you know, like I said, for me it was in March where it was like, Oh, this is a lot bigger, and yes, it is, you know, first it was an epidemic in China, now it's a pandemic and it's global. And I think that it wasn't taken seriously in the US, mostly I think due to the politics. At the time I don't think the Trump administration wanted to admit it was a problem, you know, and all the Oh, it'll go away you know it'll just disappear like a miracle and go away, was very misleading to the, to the public. Just getting off focus Andy what was, what was the gist of the question and what was impactful.

Andrew Butler 22:21
was what's concerned too and that don't worry about going off topic, that's sort of how these things are kind of designed.

Holly 22:29
Okay. But, yeah, we as a nation didn't take it seriously didn't put anything in place to prevent the spread. And I guess for me, it was just, you know flabbergasting that as numbers started coming in, number of people, you know how contagious. It was the number of people that were getting it, the number of people that were getting seriously ill and needed to be hospitalized and put on ventilators, and in spite of all of that, people were still denying that this was a serious health issue. And I guess that concerns me today, because there's still a lot of, you know, people that don't seem to, you know, believe they think it's a scam. I don't know how you get a scam when you have so many numbers that say otherwise. I wonder, you know, concerned about how it's going to impact the future, you know, like everything, you'll go back to some kind of normal I do believe that, you know, the numbers will come down enough that it will, it will kind of fade into the background kind of like, you know, the flu does. You know, we all know the flu is out there, but we don't take extra precautions not to get it necessarily, and this will eventually. I think get to that place. But I think that there will be societal changes that are probably a little more permanent I don't know what they're going to be you know are masks, going to be just as they are in China, people wear masks, kind of, routinely. Regardless of if there's an imminent threat or not. Is that going to become a norm here? I do like the way that some masks become fashion statements. There's a lot of very fancy ones out there some very cute ones. I don't know that produced a whole new global industry, probably. So, there will be impacts their long term. I think some will be positive, I think, some will be negative. I just don't know what they're going to be, you know, I've looked at it as anything that impacts us that this greatly for this length of time has to leave some lasting changes to how we interact. And you know what will be required. You know, are we going to need a vaccine passport to get on airplanes, I have to admit I'm. I am not at all jazzed at the moment of the thought of traveling in an airplane. And don't know when I'll become comfortable with that again. So, is that going to be one of the permanent changes, I don't know, just. It's going to be a different world. Even when we come out of the, you know, on the other end of this tunnel we're in. And I guess anything that is, for me that is unknown, I don't know what it's going to be, I have concerns with, right, it's just fear of the unknown I have it like everybody else.

Andrew Butler 26:16
Okay, if you're ready to. As long as you're not any more to say on that question. I don't mean to cut you off, you're still talking. I'm going to move on to some employment questions Is that okay.

Holly 26:31
Absolutely.

Andrew Butler 26:33
Okay. You mentioned the work from home earlier, his COVID-19 affected your job and the other ways.

Holly 26:44
Well, I think because we're all working from home. We feel a little more disconnected. You know, I used to like going into the office and you know sitting next to my coworkers and, yeah, you could get immediate feedback from you know, situations where it's like, oh, I just got, you know, an invite to a meeting or an email that you know is a little strange I haven't run into this before, does anybody have experience with it. You know, and you get just some spontaneous conversations and feedback and ideas, and I missed that I miss that a lot. You feel like you're, You're very much on your own little island. There's a lot more it seems like there's a lot more meetings just because we don't have that contact. And you have to plan for it now. So, if I want to get feedback on an issue that I'm having. I have to set up time with somebody to talk to them, and it just really, it slows down a lot of what your work is, you know, it's like I should be working on writing this document but instead I'm sitting in meetings, trying to get, you know, feedback advice, inform people of what. you know, I'm working on and doing. So that's been, that's been a little frustrating. It's definitely changed the way I work because I normally have at least one of the three cats, trying to help me walk across the keyboard, they've done some things I've never seen before. And just routine things around the house. It's nice to be working from home sometimes right I can do laundry all day long, or you know, stop. and if I need to, you know, set up my crock pot for dinner. You know I can do that during the day you know just the things routine stuff that can get done, because you are at home. So that is a positive aspect of it, finding a place to work from home on a permanent basis I didn't have it set up, you know, thinking I was only going to be here maybe two to four weeks, I set up in the dining room, which is really ergonomically horrible. And I needed to find a better solution for those things and set up a permanent office. So, you know how to get a desk, how to get, you know, a new monitor thing like that just to make it more comfortable and that I wasn't, you know, by the end of the day. Having sat in the uncomfortable chairs. You know, being achy and hurt I have gone to the chiropractor a lot more because of that, so maybe that has impacted my health, a little bit. It has, it has been a strange adaptation. Just lots of things that I hadn't thought about needing you know the desks, the new chair the new monitor, just to make it doable. Non painful event to work from home. What other weird things about working from home just, again, for me it's, it's the biggest impact is the isolation and trying, trying to stay connected to the rest of our group, and the, you know, what's going on in the rest of the company. That, that I have found very difficult. Other things are that, you know, in my line of work, a lot of our affiliates need documents, but they need the original documents, so they need them signed in wet ink they call them wet ink signatures, and I have to get those to the affiliate So, trying to get original documents to other places, has been a challenge, finally figured that out and now I have my own UPS account so that I can easily send packages and have them picked up from the house and delivered know globally, basically. So that's been another odd test that I had to learn how to do that I never thought I would.

Andrew Butler 32:03
Okay. Has COVID-19 Changed your employment status?

Holly 32:10
It hasn't changed my employment status. I don't think, I don't think it's act for I'm lucky in that way that really it hasn't impacted the status of the job. It's, it's created some, again, you know, novel challenges, but the job itself has not changed. It's it's pretty much the same expectations the same work workloads, the same, you know, so now I wouldn't say it's changed the status. Okay.

Andrew Butler 32:52
Do you have any concerns about COVID-19 on your employment or the economy more broadly?

Holly 33:01
I don't have concerns regarding COVID-19, in terms of my employment, my particular situation, if we never go back to the office, we've demonstrated that we can figure out how to do this all from home. So, I don't feel a personal impact that way and I guess I'm very, you know, that's extremely fortunate, because there are so many industries, you know, the economy in general. Again, that's going to be one of those things as we come out the other side, you know, that will change. I mean we learned what essential workers are right. We never thought of, you know, a lot of the people that have to go out and go to work and face the epidemic, or the pandemic. And they are essential to keeping the economy and keeping just everything going I mean food supplies I think in terms of the food chain right, all of those people need to still be doing their jobs, they are essential, you know, all of our farmers that the people that are moving the food from, you know, the farms to processing plants or slaughterhouses, or to the stores and the people that have to stock the shelves, and all of that we found our essential workers. And I guess it's the realization that you know the essential workers really are the people in the lower income brackets, the people who are doing those jobs. And I don't think that there's been enough respect for them, and all the things that they do that just keep our society going, you know, not just the economy, and then all the frontline workers in health care. But just what extremely difficult jobs that they have and the risks that they have to take is you know really. It's incredible. And things that really you didn't think about before you just took all of that for granted. So, I hope that we have a better understanding of that, and that they are critical and maybe they shouldn't be at the bottom of our economic status that they, they really should have, I guess during, especially during the pandemic, you know, it's like, maybe we should have considered hazard pay, where you get a little extra money for doing a job that's a little more dangerous than everybody else does. So yeah, I think it's economically it's created some industries, you know, mask making and, you know other things toilet paper, you know, there's just things that have really taken off that were odd, and then all of the industries that weren't considered essentials and were high risk, all of the entertainment industries, I mean those are really struggling to survive. So, yeah, there's going to be long term economic impact. For in different ways, some, some places, you know, some areas are going to do well. And then, there's so many that have suffered and small individually owned not the chain restaurants and chain things those are going to survive, but it's, it's sad to see how many individual businesses couldn't keep their doors open, or once they got creative about how to keep their doors open. You know, they were producing one product, and then because of the pandemic you know they switched over lines and started making hand sanitizers and, you know, the ingenuity of a lot of places to be able to do that was great, but for the ones that couldn't think we'll see the economic impacts of that for a long time, the right people who've lost their jobs, had to close their businesses. And now we have a lot more people on unemployment or welfare, and how our government systems are going to need to support that until things get back to whatever the normal will now be and whether or not those areas can ever recover fully. I see it as a very long-term economic impact globally. Right. We know mostly what goes on in the US, but it's going on all over the world. So, how governments globally respond to that. I don't think we know that yet either. But yeah, it's goanna have a huge economic impact already does. So, I don't think I have a whole lot more on that one.

Andrew Butler 39:24
I'm sorry. I asked a question I forgot to unmute, so I understand.

Holly 39:31
that.

Andrew Butler 39:33
Okay, so just one last question on employment. As the COVID 19 pandemic affected the employments of people you know, in what ways.

Holly 39:50
people I know from work. I don't think that it's really, you know, again, our industry. At least those of us who are office based. I don't think it's had a big impact for the ones that are field based and have to go out and visit customers that that has become an issue and just how to do that. But I think that everybody around that got worked out, people that I know who I don't know anyone I don't, I can't think of anyone directly who has just flat out lost their job because of this. I know some of you, the teachers, I have some good friends who are teachers and it's been horribly difficult for them. You know the balance between When do you go back to school and when do you not you know do e learning and having to develop e learning, and I think this is going to take a toll on the education system to students to do better when they're in class in person, I think, from what I've, you know, I've been told that, you know, having sat out a year and a half or more is actually put them behind. So, in the school, the teachers are just, you know, mixed feelings about when it's time to go back and really they haven't had a whole lot to say about it, you know, individual school districts have dictated that just, I guess I don't run in the big circles of the frontline essential workers I do have a friend who is a respiratory therapist, and she has just been exhausted, both you know physically because of the hours needed to be worked, and emotionally, having to work with patients that, you know, they are, they're dying, and knowing that, you know, they've been in the hospital, maybe for two or three weeks they're in intensive care they haven't been able to see any of their friends, loved ones, because they're in isolation, and having them past with, Excuse me, only being, you know, you're the only people that they see. And she says it's really hard to beat the last year, before they came into the ICU, they didn't even know her, And they're so sick, they really don't know where well, but they're the last person that they, that they see. Yeah. And that has been stories from her are really heartless too.

Andrew Butler 43:18
Okay. I think I'm goanna move on to a new topic as long as you think you're good on that one I have nothing else to say is that alright, that's fine. Okay. Now, you've talked about this a little bit, I suppose in work, but how is COVID-19 affected you and or your families, day to day activities.

Holly 43:55
Again, day to day activities. Oh, wasn't too exciting to begin with before COVID-19 But it has impacted us you know. We don't go out as much I don’t, I don't do my own grocery shopping much anymore. When you know March of 2020, and things were on the rise in terms of, you know the infection rate. I looked at you know when I started using the shift shopping to do my grocery shopping. So that that's been impacted. Yeah, just, I just, When I was doing my own grocery shopping, and you'd go out to the stores and people, again, in the beginning especially weren't taking this very seriously. So, no one was, you know, wearing masks, and they hadn't changed their behaviors at a time where I thought it was appropriate to change behaviors. So, again, I relied on the frontline workers and I had somebody do my shopping for me. I am lucky that I'm privileged to be able to do that. And so that out, that also in some ways impacts your day to day activities because when you're doing your own shopping, you, you can make spontaneous choices while you're in the store right it's like okay I wanted to make something with zucchini, but when I got to the produce section the zucchini looks so bad that I wasn't going to, You know I could change my mind and change it to, cauliflower, where your ship shopper. When you ask for zucchini here's what they have and that's what you get. So, the quality of your stuff sometimes was a little different and you'd have to adjust your dinner plans accordingly, or just, you know, not being able to do that would impact how I would, you know, go about making dinner. What I would make on what days, a lot of adjustments with that how far in advance when you first started using shipped. I think they were one of the companies that got overwhelmed. And they didn't have enough shoppers. So, when you went to to place an order. It was almost 10 days before you could find a window to have it delivered. So, I had to start doing meal plans almost two weeks in advance, which I never did before, you know, my weekly routine was to sit down with my coffee on Sunday morning and go, Hmm, what do I want to buy from the store and what am I going to make this week. You know, so it was something I thought of in the morning and I went out and shopped in the afternoon and we were set and having to start planning things two weeks in advance, at first was very challenging. So that's, that's gotten better. Of course, you know the day-to-day stuff just going anywhere, shopping, um, you know, wanting to go to the hardware store and just pick up something or all of that. I'm not much of a shopper, Amazon, you know, how I have relied on them tremendously for, you know, just about everything. Again fortunate, I'm fortunate that I can afford all those conveniences. And you know, the people that delivered to my door. I appreciate them a whole lot more than I did in the past, other day to day stuff. Of course, there is the. I used to go to work. So, my husband would have all day to himself to go run whatever his errands were or go do things. And now that we are both, both at home all the time. And I'm working from home so I'm pretty sure that it is cramped his style tremendously. He tries very hard not to, you know, get in my way when I'm working or make noise in the house at all, we don't have a very big house so if he's in the living room watching TV and I'm in the back room and I'm on a conference call. You can hear the TV so he's had to arrange his schedule around my work schedule sometimes which I'm sure, while he has been very gracious about doing it probably hasn't gotten overwhelmed all the time, other day to day activities. I don't know it's just, it has been an adjustment, but I don't think they've all been that difficult, because we've been able to find ways around them. I stopped using shipped. Well late last summer for a while because I thought, you know, People were finally taking it seriously, there was a mask mandate to go into stores. The numbers have been going down, and I'd felt comfortable at that time. But as soon as they started spiking again after the holidays, I've gone right back to shipped. And now I've, I've developed a relationship with one of the ship shoppers. We've fallen into a routine; I placed my order on Wednesday to be delivered on Saturday. And now she looks for my orders. And so, I probably had her for my shopper for the last oh eight to 10 weeks. So, I've actually kind of developed a relationship with her. I know she's in occupational therapy, graduating this year, and, you know, as a kid. She'll ask me about stuff that I'm buying. Oh, by I've bought a big tub of lard. And it was kind of like, what do you do with lard. And one of my COVID that there's something I've done my new COVID hobby is making birds suet because I like to watch the birds, I have bird feeders out, and the bird suet that I normally like to purchase was discontinued and I couldn't find anyone that I liked, as well. So, I developed my own recipe. And I now make my own bird suet. And that's what the lard is for making suet, so it's been fun to kind of, I've never met the shopper got glimpses over up the window if she's delivering things, but it's kind of fun that we have developed a routine in a relationship that I never thought would happen, Because I never expected to do Shift and I never expected to have developed, that kind of routine that allowed for having, you know, the same person over and over again and now we kind of look for each other. So that would be another day-to-day thing, or week to week thing. That was interesting and now that I am fully vaccinated. And the numbers are going down I am probably comfortable enough to go do my own grocery shopping. But until she graduates, I feel like I need to support her, so I'm not I'm not grocery shopping on my own anymore because I want to support this girl until she gets her diploma.

Andrew Butler 52:30
Okay. Sorry if I'm cutting you off let me No, no,

Holly 52:35
no, no, you're good.

Andrew Butler 52:38
Okay, I think on family, we'll just have one more question. Has the COVID 19 outbreak affected how to associate and communicate with friends and family. If it has, in what ways.

Holly 52:51
Oh, absolutely right. I'm not being able to get together, or not being Jason and I were not comfortable enough to go visit friends and family. For most of the year. So, for the holidays our normal schedule would be to spend Thanksgiving with his family, because they're local in Indianapolis. My family's up in the Chicago area, so we would spend Thanksgiving with Jason's family. His family celebrates Christmas Eve, so we would go do Christmas Eve with his family, and then turn around Christmas morning and drive up to the Chicago area and spend it with my family. None of those things happened in 2020. His family did opt to do a Thanksgiving dinner. And we opted not to go. They did cancel Christmas after they saw the spikes and COVID, that no one in their family was uncomfortable either. So yes, how we interacted with all of them has been very different. We, we have set up zoom meetings with, with some of the family, and we've set up zoom meetings with some of our friends. I think we've all been a little more active on Facebook. I was never big Facebook fan, but I found that's a lot there's a lot more being posted just about, like you said, day to day activities, you know photos of just things that people are doing. Now, I get lots of photos of my nieces or my nephews, nieces and nephew. And so yeah, I think communication has been different. And getting together with anybody outside of your own little bubble, I didn't even know we had bubbles before. Up until recently. And again, most people that would be in my bubble, are in my age bracket right so we, we are the over 60 crowd. So, we were some of the first vaccinated and getting together with friends we hadn't seen for a year. Right. And that was really nice recently started being brave enough to go out to restaurants, and I have found that for me personally. We went out maybe oh I don't know, four weeks ago with some friends, and the restaurant was still practicing a lot of social distancing. It's a place we had frequented before if so, it was noticeable that you know the tables and some tables have been taken out so that they could spread out more, they enforced a mask mandate. So, if you were not sitting at your table, you know you're coming into the restaurant leaving the restaurant going to the bathroom, whatever you had to have your mask on. And I was very comfortable with that. We went out maybe two weeks ago to a different restaurant. That seemed to, while they had the sign on the door that said masks were required, it was not being followed, and I thought that their tables were way too close together. And I was very uncomfortable. I didn't care for that experience at all. It was nice to see our friends, but if someone suggests going to back to that restaurant. They won't be on my list; it's also taught me to look into the practices of a restaurant before we choose another one. So, I think those things have changed for me anyway. I like to think that we are getting back to a little bit on the normal side, but even looking forward we were talking about at work getting together for, you know, maybe lunch sometime. And, but when we're talking about it, we're talking about it in terms of, well, we probably won't be back in the office so why don't we pick a place outside, and bring picnic lunches and we can all, you know feel as comfortable as we are, with what distance we want to keep being outdoors, bringing your own food, but at least getting together and chatting. So, it really has impacted how we get together with friends and family and how we've kept in touch with them, and how we go about reinitiating. Our interactions. Who are we comfortable being with? I could tell you I'm if the opportunity arose and they said, Oh, get up, go up and visit my family. I would not be comfortable with that, because they have, they're not all vaccinated yet. They have, if you will, extended bubbles. There's a lot of children in, you know, my great niece and her great nephews are 11, and five, four, so they've been interacting with other children, none of the children can be vaccinated, and I'm still just not ready. While I have been. It's not 100% Right. You don't know what level of immunity, you really got. So, there are still places I'm very uncomfortable. And we'll probably be so for quite a while. Again, one of those things. It'll be interesting to see how, how people go back to trying to be normal, and what that looks like. And I don't know, it's just goanna be interesting. There are places I feel okay there are still places I don't.

Andrew Butler 59:40
Okay. I think I'll move on. If it's our if you have to another topic Nope. Okay. Okay. Um, how are people around you, responding to the COVID 19?

Holly 59:53
pandemic. I'm not 100% Sure, I understand what you're asking,

Andrew Butler 1:00:08
like, people I'd say in your community, in your local area, you know, that kind of thing that people seem to be, you know, taking seriously, what kind of things like that.

Holly 1:00:22
Um, it seemed like at the very beginning, people weren't taking it seriously. Right. And then, after a couple weeks of being in a kind of a lockdown situation and then getting masked mandates, I think people were beginning to take it a lot more seriously. Again, that was when I was still going out to stores. It started out with nobody wearing masks to most people wearing them. You can tell the ones you know, after we had the mask mandate who were still not taking it seriously because they wouldn't wear their masks correctly. Yes, they were around their chin didn't cover their nose. I think most of the people. You know, when you do go out, you see a mix of that, and now that the mask mandate is not, it's an advisory now. And that so many people have been vaccinated. And that effort is still ongoing. I think that's part of my apprehension about letting go a little too soon. Is it seeming like people have just gone. Okay, it's over. You know, watching things on TV here for Florida during spring break and I just look at that and shake my head. You know, it's like, I understand that you want to go out and have fun. But that was a little over the top to have that many people that close together. No social distance no mass No, and it's like, I don't know if you know when you're younger you just feel like you're invincible. But again, I don't know. A lot of what I do have is from social media or the TV, bad example. I don't think they; I see as much of the people who are taking it very seriously. Other than do my circle of friends. So, I'm hoping that my circle of friends is more representative of most of the public. And that what we see in social media, like that is actually the exception makes news because it is the exception.

Andrew Butler 1:03:17
Okay, I think. I'm sorry if you will move on to another question. Okay. Okay. Now I'd like to qualify this question by saying if you would not wish to answer this question, feel free not to tell me you would not like to answer. And if you do answer this question, to try and not name any names and focus on your experience in dealing with the situation.

Holly 1:03:49
Okay.

Andrew Butler 1:03:50
Have you or anybody, you know, gotten sick during the COVID 19 outbreak. And if so, what is your experience been in responding to the sickness.

Holly 1:04:02
I do know people who have gotten sick. I know people who have died and responding to that is been Frustrating. Frustrating. For me personally, because there's so very little you can do for the person, I know who passed away. And their spouse, who, you know, the difficulty there was heart wrenching, because there was nothing you could do. You couldn't go visit him, you couldn't send them flowers, you couldn't, you know, be there in person to give any support or comfort. And then after he passed away, the same thing. You really couldn't do anything. Support, you know, for his wife. Right, because we're not in the same bubble. And that was early on, that was like in the very first wave where, you know, everyone was locked down and other than to send cards, and, you know, let them know that you were thinking of them and keeping them in your prayers. But it's not the same. So that, that was, that one was really difficult. Um, Other people I know who have had gotten COVID have had been hospitalized. And again, that's scary. But they did make it through the same kind of frustration and things with. You don't know. I mean that's one of the scariest things with this virus to me is you don't know. It impacts everybody differently. And you don't know what form your goanna get, you know, are you going to get the mild form I know several people who have done, you know, tested positive, but never really had any symptoms. So the whole gamut, right, you test positive, you don't have any symptoms you have mild symptoms, or you have more severe ones but nothing that requires, you know, medical interventions. And then whatever the long, long term effects are. I mean even people that didn't have a severe immediate, you know, the flu type reaction. Still have can have neurological issues, organ damage that could be lasting. That's that is scary. That's real scary piece of it. But yeah, so I did know people from the whole range of testing positive, but not really being symptomatic, to people who have been hospitalized and people who have died. And my reaction to it, you know, anyone who tests positive. I'm highly concerned with, because you don't know the long-term impacts. So, that will always be something you're thinking about right. Will this something shows up later. Will I have some delayed impact that you know will be seen. And just the difficulty of not being able to, I guess, do what you would normally do when you know somebody loses their spouse, or they're in the ICU or, you know, it's, it's, it's uncomfortable because you can't think of a way to either help or support, other than to let them know that you're, you're thinking of them and praying for them. It's been highly frustrating. Yeah.

Andrew Butler 1:09:16
Thank you for answering that question I know that probably wasn't an easy question to answer. I do appreciate it.

Holly 1:09:25
Sure.

Andrew Butler 1:09:26
Okay with that we're gonna move on to another topic, if that’s all right. Okay. Okay. What have been your primary sources of news during the pandemic.

Holly 1:09:42
Well, probably the five o'clock news on wish TV, which was my primary source of news now, maybe a secondary, secondary source of news. Even prior to the pandemic. Prior to the pandemic. I probably listened, you know, driving to and from work I listened to NPR, and that was always a source of news for me. Since I'm at home I don't listen to NPR all that much I don't turn the radio on. So that's, that's been a change, but the 5pm news because I can't stay up late enough to watch the 10pm news. Probably the primary source. If there is something interesting, though. I don't do a lot of social media I'm on Facebook and that's about it, if something catches my eye or somebody posts something on there I might do some of my own research. I might do some of my own research if something on the five o'clock news caught my attention. The problem with getting news that way is very rarely any way you get snippets of it. Right, yeah. You'll hear about something that happened, but it's your sometimes it's so out of context and you don't know the whole story that I'll do my own little bit of internet research to figure it out. I'm skeptical of all new sources. So, it's been interesting, you know, I don't think much of that changed however due to COVID. I've always, always been a little skeptical about what we are, you know, what we're told on TV, and even in a newspaper or magazine, and they're all trying to sell a story, so they tell you the highlights or the things that are outrageous or impactful. And then you need to go figure it out for yourself. So, really, TV news is probably my primary source of news, but that's before and after the COVID pandemic.

Andrew Butler 1:12:20
Okay, thank you. Um, if you, if you Okay, let's move on to next question. Okay. Okay. Um, How has municipal leaders and government officials in your community responded to the COVID-19 outbreak.

Holly 1:12:43
I'm here in Indiana in Indianapolis. I think they've done a actually a pretty good job. You know that the governor did a mask mandate, you know, for the whole state. And then, as he, you know his things have progressed and the vaccinations have rolled out that he made it an advisory. I've mixed feelings about that. I guess because of where I live in in Marion County, were one of the highest cases and infection rates. And so, in Marion County, we still have a mass mandate, which I think is great, but because the Governor made it an advisory. A lot of people around here think that it's an advisory here also. So, I guess, for me personally, I would like to see the statewide I understand why you would lift it from a mandate to an advisory because not all areas needed to be under a mandate anymore. But I just, you know, and while the municipality that I live in has mates, is still a mandate. It's really not enforceable. It's, I don't even know how they would do it and so therefore people are starting to ignore that altogether. I think overall Indiana is done a really nice job on reacting to it and trying to keep you’re the spread of it under control by having mandates and asking people not to frequent restaurants, you know, and slowly opening up the stage, you know, in terms of allowing 25% or 50% capacities. I think they've managed that just about as well as you can and rolling out the vaccines. They had a plan and they stuck with it. And I think they've done a real good job with that. Right now, I think it's, it’s a lot harder, you know, as we are, as they are trying to relax some of the restrictions, we've been under I think everybody is so you know we all have that COVID fatigue. And so, we take any, any bit of relaxation and say, it's done. It's over. So, that's not the fault of our leaders, they're trying very hard to still impress upon us that it isn't all over, there are still people that are not vaccinated, there's, you know, it won't be for a couple months till we get everybody who wants to be and then there's always the ones that aren't going to because they don't want to be anyway. And it really is difficult to make all those balances, I think in Indiana they've done it well.

Andrew Butler 1:16:20
Okay. If you could there, I think we'll move on to future. That's.

Holly 1:16:29
Sure,

Andrew Butler 1:16:31
it's always hoped for the best.

Holly 1:16:36
Okay,

Andrew Butler 1:16:37
well, I suppose he was the first one, how does this pandemic compared to other big events that have happened in your lifetime.

Holly 1:16:52
You know, I think I've had a fortunate lifetime that there hasn't been a whole lot of major things that have impacted me directly. Of course, I do live in my own little world. I guess I kind of compare it when somebody says, how is the future going to go back to normal after this, and we will redefine normal. Look at the 911 attacks. And the whole country got locked down for a while right while they were trying to figure things out and do. And then we came back to normal started to be taking your shoes off in the airport. Right. Today, you're even question it, it's not an infringement on my rights that I have to take my shoes off, or I have to walk through a metal detector, or that I have to. There was so much that changed because of 911 that we consider normal now. I think going forward. This will be the same type of thing. There will be things that are being required maybe it's wearing masks on airplanes, and that'll become normal. That's not a not an infringement on my civil rights. It'll be the socially acceptable thing to do. Other trying to think of other big things that happened in my life. This happened in my lifetime, but I was very young and didn't have the appreciation for it at the time. And that would be the Vietnam War. Because I think the Vietnam War. And probably the subsequent wars, you know definitely Afghanistan and stuff, but I know the people, you know, they're of my age group that came back from Vietnam, and the psychological toll that it took on everybody who was there everybody I know who was a Vietnam that come out with issues of some sort. Not always the same ones. And I think coming out of the pandemic, or through the pandemic. I think we're goanna see a lot more psychological issue. I don't think they recognize them coming out of Vietnam. As much as people are aware of psychological issues and trauma, and fatigue, as they did back then. So, I'm hoping that, you know, there is an area that people are going to need help with, and that it is better recognized now than it was, you know, late 60s, early 70s So I think in terms of psychological trauma. This is comparable. I'm just hoping that we have better resources and acknowledgement of that today. That makes sense. Yes.

Andrew Butler 1:20:50
Okay. Would it be okay if I moved on to the next question? Sure. Okay, here's the big one. What can you imagine your life being like in a year?

Holly 1:21:02
In a year. I am hoping that within a year we go back to whatever a new normal will be that back to but move forward into our new normal. I'm hoping that, you know, within six months, the US will be mostly vaccinated, and things will begin to look like they used to, you know, we could go to a restaurant and not wear a mask. Hopefully within a year. That will be global, you know, until, you know, until things are under control globally, I don't think we can ever let our guard down. Totally. We're just too much of a global society anymore and, you know, our normal January vacations were always to go to someplace warm right, the one we got in and 2020 We went to Costa Rica. I would like to be able to do that, maybe, I'm not sure about 2022 Just because when you take a vacation like that, you're interacting with people globally, from all over the world, we like to go to those all-inclusive resorts, and you have people from all over the place. And while I might be comfortable traveling in the US, because, you know, I'm hoping that we will be mostly vaccinated country with our infection rates way low that you know it's no more of a risk than getting the flu at that point, I'll be comfortable, but I know Europe's having a horrible time and a lot of the people that go to those all-inclusive resorts come from Europe and Europe. They're doing horribly and getting people vaccinated and convincing people that they need to be. And I'm not comfortable mingling with them. And I think even within a year, I won't be so year from now. I think we will be in the US, very much on our path to the new norm. You know, I totally expect to be doing my own grocery shopping, and not intimidated to go to a restaurant, you know, depending on their policies and getting together with friends and family. And that feeling like I need to maintain social distance, I think that's all plausible within a year. I think globally, anything you want. I would want to do in a year, probably not. I just, you know, when I talked to our coworkers that are over in Europe and the way that they've been trying to roll out the vaccines, it's just not going well at all. So, yeah, I can't see them being in the same place in a year, so I will probably be doing everything close to what I did normally close to home, but I won't be as adventuresome about wanting to travel to exotic places.

Andrew Butler 1:24:41
Okay and here's a similar, very related question. What do you hope your life will be like in a year?

Holly 1:24:58
considering I'm retiring in September. I'm hoping that in a year, where I'm going to be retired. That I would hope that globally, we'd get a handle on this. And my previous answer, I was not optimistic, but if you're asking about what I hope for, that's what I would hope for. Since I will be available to travel, it would be nice to be able to go to other places. Yeah, Aruba for some reason is on my bucket list, not right now. And I hope that this does fade to a no more on anybody's radar screen than the flu. I hope that they have better ways of, like, this is not my life, necessarily, but I am hoping that, you know, the medical advances that they're learning from this virus will be applied and we'll never see one of these in this magnitude again. So, really, I guess my hope for a year from now is not too much different than how do I see it in a year from now, other than I would hope that globally. It gets better resolved, than the way it looks like it's going at the moment. So that, you know, for me, I can travel, right, it's all about me and what I would like to be doing. Also, I would like to, you know, since I am going to be retired, I haven't thoroughly thought out, what I'm going to be doing, although volunteering would be on my list of things to do. And then I would hope that if I choose to volunteer for something that there wouldn't be restrictions. I guess I've always had a soft spot for older people. So, when I was thinking about volunteering, I was thinking about you know maybe going to retirement centers convalescent centers. And right now, that still wouldn't be possible. I hope that in a year when I have that opportunity. It is possible.

Andrew Butler 1:27:42
Okay I think I've just got one last closing question for you.

Holly 1:27:47
Okay. Okay,

Andrew Butler 1:27:52
Knowing what you know now what do you think, individuals, communities, or governments need to keep in mind for the future?

Holly 1:27:59
I think they have to keep in mind that this is a pandemic. It's not the last one will ever have. I hope they keep in mind the lesson was learned that you need to react faster to it. Got a friend of mine who is a PhD epidemiologist, and so he's been keeping, you know, this is his business, he keeps close tabs on all the news. He is one of my other new sources by the way, if it comes to the pandemic. But, you know, he wasn't surprised at all that we had one, it was, you know, it wasn't a matter of, is it going to happen, it's a matter of when. And that'll be the same going into the future. So, I'm hoping they keep that in mind that at all levels. I think that hopefully there will be lessons learned that we need to react sooner. We need to be able to give good advice. At the beginning, and understanding that at the beginning, like with the beginning of COVID. There was so much unknown, there's still so much unknown but, you know, March of last year was just so you know, the advice was to wear masks and to wear gloves and to sanitize and to you know do all these things. And as we learned more that this virus was mostly airborne and your chances of getting it from, you know, objects and touch, they relaxed all of that. So, but the messaging was done badly. What I think the general public heard was, Oh, you were wrong, you don't know what you're talking about. So, I'm hoping that they learn to react faster, and to do a better job at messaging, so that they don't lose their credibility as they did with a lot I think with this pandemic that we would have something policies in place that you know when something reaches a certain threshold, that there's a reaction to it, and certainly not the reaction that our federal government had at the time. I think there needs to be better policies in place for whether you think it's going to be a big issue or not to react to it sooner so that it doesn't become that issue, said today. Did that answer the question. Yeah,

Andrew Butler 1:31:03
yes, it did. Thank you. I think unless you have any other questions, I think that will be it.