Cathy Mitchell Oral History, 2021/12/01


Title (Dublin Core)

Cathy Mitchell Oral History, 2021/12/01

Description (Dublin Core)

Cathy Mitchell was born and raised in Champaign, IL, and currently works as a paid caregiver for a 91-year-old lady. In this interview, Cathy Mitchell discusses how COVID-19 has affected her life, including her work, family life, and mental health. She shares what it has been like to adjust to life as a newly widowed woman and caregiver during the pandemic, and how the pandemic has affected her in terms of her mental health. She discusses her thoughts and experiences, as developed from the initial crisis until recently in this interview, consisting of 3 parts.

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Controlled Vocabulary (Dublin Core)


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Date Modified (Dublin Core)


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Interviewer (Bibliographic Ontology)

Melanie A. Schmidt

Interviewee (Bibliographic Ontology)

Cathy Mitchell

Location (Omeka Classic)

United States of America

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Duration (Omeka Classic)


abstract (Bibliographic Ontology)

Cathy Mitchell was born and raised in Champaign, IL, and currently works as a paid caregiver for a 91-year-old lady. In this interview, Cathy Mitchell discusses how COVID-19 has affected her life, including her work, family life, and mental health. She shares what it has been like to adjust to life as a newly widowed woman and caregiver during the pandemic, and how the pandemic has affected her in terms of her mental health. She discusses her thoughts and experiences, as developed from the initial crisis until recently in this interview, consisting of 3 parts.

Transcription (Omeka Classic)

Melanie Schmidt 00:03
[clap] So, hello, this is Melanie A. Schmidt who is recording about her mother, Cathy Jo Mitchell, upon her- interactions and perspective on COVID 19 pandemic from the beginning of 2019 to current times. Uh, so, we’re gonna go ahead and hear from her with some interesting questions as this will go into our archives. So, to begin with Cathy, some- we’re going to go to some of the background questions just to establish our time and place and setting. Could inform me and of the date and time for the archives?
Cathy Mitchell 00:53
Well, you said the date and time for the archives was 2019, but but I remember it. Um, there was no actual designation of action concerning COVID 19 until 2020.
MS 00:07
Correct. Now, my question I’m really looking for is what is today’s date?
CM 01:22
Oh, okay. Today’s date. I can answer that. It’s December1, 2021.
MS 01:25
Okay, thank you for that. But yes, I loved you statement. And, we’ll go ahead and continue with that a little further. We already established that your name is Cathy Jo Mitchell. Do you mind sharing any demographic information for the studies such as race, ethnicity, age, gender identity?
CM 01:50
Okay. My ethnicity is white. My gender is female.
MS 01:58
CM 01:59
Yeah! 63.
MS 02:00
Okay. Um, so, is there- do you have a job status at the moment?
CM 02:08
At the moment, I am a part-time caregiver for a 91 year old.
MS 02:13
Oh, that’s wonderful! So, is there any other important information about yourself that you would like to share about your identity?
CM 02:23
Well, what I think what’s probably one of the more important things is about this interview is the fact that I was widowed in January of 2020 so I went through the beginning stages of the COVID scenario as a widow, which has its implications that I imagine your questions are going to get to that.
MS 02:48
Yeah. Definitely, and that’s one of the major parts in life that we have to face so I’m sorry about that, but I’m glad we were able to have this interview to be able to record such things, in life. For better or for worse. What- What are some primary things that you do on day to day basis. Ah, you know, for like today or, you know, is there anything that you have as a usual routine?
CM 03:25
Well, Most days, four days out of seven, I- in the morning I go to work with my- I am caregiver for, and, um, I do a lot of errands for her as she doesn’t get around well. Things like groceries or go to the, um, drugstore, or whatever. And of course that usually, requires taking a mask. I very much believe in wearing a mask, and I already have already got both COVID shots and booster at this point.
MS 04:00
Okay, so, it sounds like you have been following CDC guidelines from the Center of Disease and Control, right?
CM 04:10
Yes, I believe that’s important.
MS 04:11
[laughs] Oh, okay.
CM 04:12
Not just for myself, but for other people.
MS 04:13
That’s very considerate. So, ah, going on from there about the where do you live, Cathy?
CM 04:22
I live in Champaign, Illinois.
MS 04:26
Okay, and for the most part, for- where- what was life like in Champaign prior to the pandemic?
CM 04:38
Oh, well, Champaign is a university town. And so we have a lot of students that are back. Actually, it’s internationally recognized so we get students from all corners of the globe. And, um, so, it’s a very collective place. It’s a place were, um, there’s a high level of education, and because of that- and because the University of Illinois, like many other universities, worked hard at creating a vaccination from the get-go, and worked hard at finding ways of detecting the coronavirus, the original variant, this area automatically for the safety of these students and the and the people we went to masks, to washing our hands, we stayed in a lot. We only went to the store really probably once, I was bad and went twice a week, but you know, we really wanted to get a handle on the COVID and not spread it.
MS 05:44
CM 05:45
And we were successful! Sorry. We were successful.
MS 05:49
What do you mean by that?
CM 05:50
[Deep breath] We- our positivity rates were some of the lowest in the state. [pause] Our death, our death rate was, of course not. Not very good. But, um, but again, because we had a lot of people who were actively following CDC guidelines, for whatever reasons. Um, I think we got hit less than some other places.
MS 06:22
Okay, um, thank you for that- for that information. Also, for I know, you said for your primary day to day basis, you do a lot of caretaking. Is there any other duties in your personal life or extra other extra curricular activities or family obligations that you, also, are active in?
CM 06:48
Yes, I have a daughter who lives in town with her husband, and at that time, a two year old grandchild who was going to daycare. The daycare, also, did an excellent job of keeping things under control. And I would pick her up most Fridays because her mother had to work on later shift her dad was working. So, I'd pick her up from daycare, most Fridays, and that remained constant because we all wear masks.
MS 07:17
Okay. Did you usually when you had your little granddaughter? You said she was about to so she would have been a little bit too young to be wearing a mask. But did you wear a mask around her as well?
CM 07:32
Well, in actuality, what what we were following here and Champaign at that time was two and under did not need to wear a mask. Okay, so And because we, we didn't stop meeting as a family at holidays, because we were in groups of less than 10. And so since we were around each other regularly, we didn't wear masks when the four of us would get together. And again, whatever Corey came down with anything, they had her tested for COVID. I- She's had more tests than I have. I've had one she's had at least five, you know, so. So we kept track of it that way. And of course, we got all vaccinated at the soonest as soon as time that we could, which was probably last February, March.
MS 08:31
Okay, so um, that makes quite a bit of sense. We're going to go ahead and move on to some more area, to give you some context to kind of give us to remember, it's been a while. We're going to take a moment just to put into perspective how the whole nation kind was going through things. And maybe this will spark some memory for you an information.
MS 08:59
So according to see the Center for Disease Control and protection, the COVID data tracking tractor, the United States, cases, deaths and laboratory testing by the state, territory and jurisdiction actually buy as of yesterday, the total cases are 48,040 8 million, excuse me. 48,377,531. So it's definitely gone up. Cases in the last seven days have only gone to 5006 6.5 161,249. And then our total deaths at right now are 778,489. So to put this into perspective, because that's a high numbers there. The total fatalities actually is double that of World Word II deaths. So many references have been made over the Corvus course of this pandemic, and references to other historical pandemics and rate of affection, social political guidelines, and culture. Have you heard of any of these references to past historical pandemics?
CM 10:25
Yes, I have I read newspaper, I had a couple magazines that come into my house regularly. And, um, and in fact, I was just reading yesterday, it's still true that the United States leads the world in number of deaths, I believe, followed by China and Russia. Okay, so you've definitely been reading up on the news. I keep up with it.
MS 10:51
Okay. Well, I'll get back to you more detail on about the sources you'll have here soon. So I'm going to go into a little bit more about the beginning of it. Now that we know what currently is going on, when you've mentioned that you did learn about COVID-19, and about, like, we didn't start having action on it until 2020. When did you first learn about COVID-19? Was this before it came to the United States or to your state? Or was this after?
CM 11:24
Actually, I learned about it, probably a month. Probably be a month before it actually was founded in United States. Again, my husband was fighting cancer for many years, but was in in his last stages in the month of December. And it really didn't become a concern in the United States until after his death January 11 2020. So what it really wasn't, it was it was out there in the world, but it wasn't on our media radar.
MS 12:11
Okay. Um, thank you for that. I'm waiting. So yours, um, since that initial time, how did your thoughts kind of change once they came from the early news into more relative terms? So into your neighborhood area. How did your thoughts kind of change and develop?
CM 12:37
Okay, well, again, part of this is geographical. Because after my husband died, um, and we got through the funeral and that sort of thing. I had decided that I was going to go visit my sister in Arizona. She had moved there just recently, and I was going to spend a lot of time with her and her husband. And so we knew COVID was out there, but it wasn't anything to be greatly concerned about. And I'm sitting in the airport ready to come back. Actually, I guess this was March: I think it was like March 12th. I got on the plane from Arizona, back to Champaign, and I'm sitting in the airport, hearing how colleges are now shutting down because of COVID. And I'm going, "Oh, no.” And then they're talking about airline flights. And I'm going, “Oh, no. I guess I'm thankful that I'm on a flight going home today because it's not canceled. And I get to go home.” I can imagine being stuck in Arizona for the duration because of COVID. So that's when it hit me that this was something that we're really seriously going to have to address.
MS 13:59
Okay, you said that you're a little bit fearful of like had been a little bit earlier, you might have been stuck in Arizona. Why would that have been a concern for you?
CM 14:11
Well, first of all, I had a suitcase all my belongings are back in Illinois. And then there’s- there's the concerns of staying with my sister and her husband while they don't have any children. He has a steady job. It's just the it's just the way life has to change and how you live because you're not living in your normal place, and you're with people you don't normally live with. And of course the worst part is we don't know how long we're going to have to be isolated. So we don’t- we don't know. We just don't know what we're in for.
CM 14:52
Okay. So it's kind of that uncertainty that unknown. So, for the most part luckily, since that was not the case, you were able to return home. What issues of most concerns you at this stage? And you said it was about March was March 2020. This is March 20
CM 15:18
This was the second week of March, and when I returned home to Champaign.
MS 015:23
Okay, so thank you for establishing that time and date. So, during that initial part, once you were able to get home, what were some of the concerns that really rose in your mind about what was happening?
CM 015:38
Um, I think, yeah, I have to think back because it's over a year. But I think the biggest concern was was that, that we need to follow CDC guidelines because if we work together, and don't spread the disease, we'll get through this faster. The difficult part for me was the fact that I am dealing with my grief, almost all by myself. But on the other hand, I mean, there's pros and cons to this. And first of all, I have to say, I was really thankful that my husband, even though I didn't wish him to die, he was already deceased. So, we don't have to worry about spreading the germs to him who's already compromised. We're not to worry about the things that happened with other people who had to be hospitalized. After that point, where they die in the hospital with their family members, who couldn't even be there: the nurses and doctors who held patients hands while they died because because of the spread of the COVID. We couldn't take the chance of loved ones coming in and making things worse.
CM 017:12
So again, I'm thankful that that was not my experience, the hard part for me, because I'm an extrovert, and I'm an extrovert extrovert I'm giving now I just, I just couldn't, I couldn't not get away from my house. Luckily, I had I attended church and I had a project that minister had me doing work with the local library, or could walk in with a mask and gloves, and purge books that were nobody mean, no one, not being used, and it didn't affect anybody. I could come and go as I want. So, that gave me an outlet to get out of the house. When that wasn't enough, I jumped in my car and I drive around Champaign for 15 minutes or something now, just get out of the house.
CM 018:01
Now, I didn't live in a vacuum. Because again, lucky for me down the street was a friend who'd lost her husband six months before I lost mine. And so, we walked each other through the grievances of being widows. So I guess those are probably the worst, or the most challenges and the most painful parts of the COVID thing. To what extent we could stay home and work through our grief, because we didn't have to cancel meetings because a lot of people weren't meeting. So, pros and cons.
MS 018:41
Yeah, there's some actually a lot of questions, I would definitely want to go into more on some of what you just told, but we'll say a few of those for later. So, you will- said that in the house. You were by yourself. Was this the current house you're living in? Or is this a different one?
CM 018:59
That's an excellent question. Um, my husband and I, when we knew he took disability, and I retired, so I could be his caregiver. We moved to a 2,000 square foot home with basement, and it was a very nice house, but way too big for me. So last February, March, I moved into the present location I am, which is a one level with a back porch, three bedroom house on the opposite side of town, which is a much better fit for me. And so yes, my location has actually changed, and it's been a good thing.
MS 19:43
Okay, um, well, I'm glad to hear that, with the move. So you said in about that early winter, spring time. You said about March. So this was again, March 2020 that you moved?
CM 20:01
Um, no, this will be March 20. Wait, yeah. No, 2021.
CM 20:06
No 2021 Because I was in in the previous house, the one my husband and I bought for about a year after his death.
MS 20:16
Okay. So from the beginning of when things started shutting down, you had about a year, and then you moved into your current residency, is that correct?
CM 020:26
That's correct.
MS 20:27
Okay. I just want to make sure we are we were on that timeline. Yeah. So initially, since we've talked about some of the beginning. Some other information I just wanted to know about is what- going back to some of the information, you know, I've noticed you mentioned in you’re vary informed about a lot of the details of what's going on. What have been your primary sources of news during this pandemic?
CM 020:58
Okay, well, I get a daily paper, and newspaper, News Gazette is a good source of information. So probably most of my news comes through that. I occasionally watch the local news so that usually keeps me up to date. I probably watched that maybe two times a week, um, and now and then there's, I have a magazine that comes in, but it’s- it's music related, but of course, COVID, his hit, everything. So as my music sorority gets together, of course, we had to go to zoom meeting, have a blog, and things- things were changed, and how we dealt with that sort of thing. Let's see, we stopped going to church services, they went online.
CM 21:49
But you're asking about news, magazines, I was getting in the beginning, I was getting Smithsonian, I was getting National Geographic. And I'm getting- I was getting the national parks magazine. And then I have a friend who gets a magazine called the week, which tends to feel a bit more liberal, but between those sources, I was, you know, keeping up to date with what's going on in world.
MS 22:20
Okay. Why? So you've been very informed about what's going on. Why is that important to you?
CM 22:26
Well, I- Well, one of the reasons is in specifically in terms of COVID, that it's really important is because, as researchers, were working around the clock to find out information about COVID, their ideas and understandings of COVID and how it spread changed.
CM 22:50
And now of course, I also have a source in terms of- I have a brother in law, who's a pediatrician and was in Virginia. And so when he'd come to visit, you know, he'd have a mask or whatever. And we'd ask questions about well, “what about this, about that?” Well, things seem to conflict. Well, as he said, “we're finding out new things all the time.” So it seems like some of that information is conflicting, but in actuality, it's not conflicting. We're just- science is teaching us more things about this disease.
CM 23:24
So, um, so I was totally surprised when he came to visit, he walks up to me, because he seen children who are not even protected. He walks up to me, when he comes back to Champaign without a mask, but it's hanging from his ear, gives me a big old hug, and I go, “Wait, we can't do this!” And he goes, “Oh, yes, we can.” He said, T”his is how we do it.” So we hug, we don't have the masks, but he's looking one way and I'm looking the other. So of course, we're not breathing on each other. And then, you know, it's a brief thing. So, um, so there are things that can be done, that could be done, if you know how to go about doing them, correctly-
MS 24:11
Why? Oh, Okay. {simultaneous laughter]
CM 24:12
And I got-
MS 24:13
Sorry about that. Go ahead.
CM 24:14
Now, I- that- I probably diverged down a rabbit hole, but, you know, my brother in law is a pediatrician, was also a wonderful source of information because I could get the exact science from him.
MS 24:24
Okay. Why? Why do you think there is that difference of- between the doctors knowledge and then what the general public is instructed to do?
CM 24:37
Well, I think you have to understand who humans are, and humans have thought processes and they're not all the same. And communities have thought processes, and sometimes they're like and sometimes they're different. And it's also true that human beings, because we are fairly willful people, we have a tendency to believe what we want to believe. And so like, for instance, people in rural areas tend to wear masks less. Why? Because lower populations, or they're working out in the field, and then they're out by themselves. So why should they wear a mask? Well, then when they come into town, do they wear a mask? Or don't they wear a mask? These are, these are all questions that individuals have to face as well as communities. And this is why it was very important when CDC was saying, “Well, you're not just wearing a mask that you're wearing or asked for somebody else because you could be carrying it and not even know.” So I'm not sure if that really answered that question, but, you know, it just kind of covers why you have different thoughts across the United States of America about how to deal with COVID.
MS 25:50
Now that is an excellent statement. Thank you for that. So going on with that idea actually leads perfectly into my next question. I think you already answered some of this, but it would be interesting to see your take on some of the specifics. So in this initial part, as the world learned about the initial virus outbreak and China in late 2019, actually, what do you remember about the federal response between Dr. Fauci of the CDC department head and the Trump administration's, as it was covered by the media and government correspondence?
CM 26:30
Well, there was quite a diversity there. Um, I think- I think Dr. Fauci led us in the right directions in the early days. I mean, we had really no idea what this COVID virus was, except for we knew that it spread quickly and it would have, in some cases, it would have lasting effects in some cases, you know, if you had a minor case, it wouldn't impact your life much beyond the initial 14 day seclusion that you had to take, once you found out you had it. In terms of President Donald Trump at the time, I have to be honest and say I was not a Trump fan.
CM 27:15
Um, I think he was too reactionary. And perhaps while he was trying to downplay panic, um, you know, he just put, as he did in many areas of important subjects, he just, he just put, he put obstacles up, or perhaps obstacles up, that perhaps obstacles didn't need to go. He acted like he didn't need to get vaccinated. He espoused that- that you could deal with it with, through vitamins. I think they said vitamin D, and vitamin C, and zinc and magnesium. And he was promoting that, that's all that was really needed to deal with this, and he wouldn't be wearing a mask. A lot of the time, I know that public speaking, it's difficult to have a public speaker and have them wear a mask as you can understand them. But, um, he just seemed to be rebellious, and, of course, I tend to go with science. So I followed with- with the head of our medical division of the United States of America suggested because that made the most sense.
MS 28:45
Okay, so some of those are details that are- thank you for the explanation of they are really good examples of what your opinions are and why. So, thank you. Have your opinions changed- Initially has you’re- as we’ve gone and learned about things, did your sources ever change throughout this pandemic? Did you switch or have reasons to switch certain sources?
CM 29:10
Um, no, I really didn't. Although one other thing that I mentioned- that I didn't mention before, was: I am on Facebook, and I have a variety of Facebook friends, who have a variety of political views. And so I could usually sound out somebody sometimes it was, sometimes I asked question, but mostly people just put their views out there. Facebook is kind of good that way. And so, you know, I could- I could pick up what the society was telling us through our news sources, but I can, also, since I have people in various parts of the country, pick up their views in different areas. And so I felt like I was able to keep a real general idea of what was- what the theory was in terms of fighting COVID-19, but also what the practical life of the- of Americans, in different parts of the country, were following. And so again, you know, it's easy to take the middle-of-the-road, once you have all that background to draw from.
MS 30:25
Okay, well, so how did this um, so those diversities of knowledge? How did that and especially as things changed and developed over time? How did that did? Did it affect? Or did it not affect your perception of society? Or government? Or, even, mental well being?
CM 30:47
I think the mental well, being is a big was a big, big issue. I think it was probably an issue before COVID, but swept under the rug. I think, um, I think: yes, the mental states of people in general, did get worse, over COVID because most of us like to be out, we don't want to be confined to our homes. I lost my train of thought. I can't remember what else I was gonna say. [laugh]
MS 31:23
How did that pertain to society overall? So, how did that affect your perception of society?
CM 31:30
Oh, it didn't really change my perception of society. One thing that I haven't covered is I was a public school teacher for 20 to 30 years. And, you know, when you spend time with human beings: teaching them, talking about new ideas, perhaps educating about old ideas, you find that human beings really don't react to things very much differently from one area to another. So again, you have those people who are always trying to be up on the new information, you are those people who are middle the road. You have people who really don't care, and they just want to do what they want to do and it really doesn't matter who else has been affected. So, human nature's always been that way through millennia so it really didn't change my perspective of how society works.
MS 32:31
How was it for your expectations of government?
CM 32:36
Um, we had a big- because Americans are so big about freedom. And, I think we have a right to be, um, and many people were worried about one part of government overtaking the other. But again, I have a heavy history background, and I think I really gained faith in the checks and balances that our forefathers put into a government because really, other than fact that a lot of people died, our checks and balances held in terms of government. And that's because our Founding Fathers, really- they were, they're just incredibly astute, and geniuses, and put together you know, with the, with the President and the Congress and the Senate, and the Congress, -No, that's Congress’s: House and Senate- and the Supreme Court. All of those branches have worked well together so that one particular ideology did not overtake the other. And I think overall, things balanced out pretty nicely.
MS 34:04
Okay. Um, for that, um, that case, do you think the media covered important issues well or do you think that they missed out on some opportunities that they could have gone into more?
CM 34:23
Well, I, I think that they- I think the coverage of news of America is very complicated. I’m really glad we still have the news, and I think the freedom of speech is guaranteed. I do think that our news media tends to be more reactionary than factual sometimes. But I think sometimes our news media encourages dissension. But I think that it’s still a tool that is still worth having, and that freedom of speech is still very important and helps keep this country, again, somewhat balanced.
MS 035:18
How did you, just for reference, how did you come to that conclusion? Was there any examples that you noticed as you were going through the pandemic, that may lead you to believe that the media kind of led to heated emotions?
CM 35:36
Well, I have relatives who are staunch Republicans, I have relatives who are liberal minded, I have people who think they are will, middle of the road, and whether they are or not, that's a matter of opinion. But the ones on either extreme, again, this part of why I say people tend to believe what they want to believe the ones on the extremes will always pick, you know, certain news reporting, like Fox versus CNN or ABC or whatever your coverage is going to be, we tend to hold up for examples that which we think is telling us the most accurate news. And, yet, if you look at them, many of them have very one sided or they lean one one way or the other. So I think it's good, too.
CM 36:34
Again, I have a sister, who, who she watches several, she has the time to do this, she doesn't work full time, she watches several news sources to try to get a balanced view. And I have a lot of respect for that. I tend not to watch them all because I could spend all day doing that, and there are things I want to do with my day than just watch news. So um, so yeah, I think we have, you know, I think we've always had certain news media, whether it's newspapers or radio or whatever it is, tends to be one sided or more one side than the other.
CM 37:16
You know, again, if I, if I feel like I want to get more balanced news all listen to, but television or BBC, but even they, they tend to be a little bit more liberal. But in any case, I yeah, I think you have to consider the source whenever you're looking at your your sources of information, and you have to know who they are. And you have to know that that someone's funding them. So there may be a bias factor. Okay. In that case, I'm considering that we're talking about: news, you learned a lot of, you know, occurrences and what's happening based upon them as a sledge. They have been a really good source of telling us how to adapt to the virus as we come across it.
MS 38:06
In that case, considering that we’re talking about news, we’ve talked about a lot of- a lot of occurrences and happenings based upon them. As of such, they’ve been a really good source of how to adapt to the virus as we’ve come caroused it. According to the government and really affected United States, as well as yourself in your local area. I'm going to first look at a couple of things, and improvements since the initial application of shutdown. And, I believe that was from March until May, I believe it was the most common timeframe every public place was shut down. So this is a little bit afterwards in the federal government, there's a Constellated Appropriations Act in 2021, which compromise a series of amendments made to the House of Representatives 133. This was between the United States and Mexico Economic Partnership Act. The United States Senate and the House of Representatives passed the act in December 21 2020. But of course, it didn't implement it until 2021, and the President, Donald Trump, signed it into law on December 27 2020. The act this is the one that is usually known for the second stimulus relief funds and other financial assistance during the pandemic. What were your thoughts or concerns about this implemention?
CM 39:32
Well, I certainly think there are plenty of people out there who needed the invention, intervention. There was discussion, a lot of discussion about FDR and Social Security and some of the things he put in place that actually allowed us to get through the pandemic easier. And again, I sat here thinking, well, thank goodness he did that and was able to get that done because that sure is making our life a lot easier than it was on the people in 1918 when they had the Spanish flu, and even more people were dying, well, not more people were dying because there was a lesser population at the time, that you know. You had people sitting lying out in the open and cots and beds, there's pictures of that. So again, I thank goodness that, that he was able to get that through. So there would be relief in times of great need, like we were experiencing in 2019 2020. I lost my place again, I can't remember where I was going.
MS 40:46
That's okay. Maybe I can help. So when you say that it helps with relief, how did it help relieve people? Are there a lot of people who couldn't- couldn't work?
CM 40:57
Like for instance, I didn't normally do this. But I started. I mean, I would eat out like once a week, just because that's what I did. That was my habit. But during COVID, I started- I would eat out more often because you had- you had fast food, places that that were using skeleton crews. You had people who are laid off of work. You had people, I mean- I realized the best place to be during the [inaudible] pandemic was to be retired or partially retired because I had already put away money, or my husband and I had already put away money so that we could live on our retirement. But those who were in their 20s and 30s, and 40s and 50s, they still- they hadn't put away all put out, put aside, all their retirement money. So they were digging into their savings just to live pay rent, buy groceries, whatever because many of them did not have a job. So now, did I get to stimulus checks? Yes, I did. Did I consider that I didn't need them? Yes, I did. But you know, there are people who are writing again, I was reading this in the newspaper who were, saying, "Well, what am I doing about this? I don't really need my stimulus check. But I can-, I can eat out every single day and keeps selling so people employed, wear my mask.” I don't eat in a restaurant: I take it home. We can keep some people working. We have businesses that are closed down that didn't make it to the endemic.
CM 42:38
We have in Champaign- we have some businesses who have been able to continue and are not closed down because they had- they had a base of consumers who already liked what they were doing and enjoyed what they're doing. And my best example of that is Champaign's Jarling's. This is a soft yogurt ice cream type place. And they managed to stay open. Why? Because people needed something positive to do. I am in because Jarling's was the go to for for a lot of people like after, after the fourth of July parade or whenever there's a birthday or a lot of times when there's public concerts. Your kids were doing a band concert, families would go to Jarling’s just to celebrate so people started going to such places because they needed something positive to do. And so I mean, that's, it's the whole thing is so complicated, but the stimulus checks were needed.
CM 43:43
Have we gotten too far? Yes, we have because now we have businesses who can't get workers, even though they raise minimum wage up to $15 an hour. Of course nobody lives- nobody can live on a 40 hour week $15 An hour paycheck. But, we have restaurants who have reduced hours or whatever, even now, because the amount of people who need to work because they got their- so many stimulus checks and the amount of people who want to work. There's a discrepancy there. And so we're our society's still out of balance in terms of supply and demand because of that very issue.
MS 44:31
Um, so go on on that one of the time, I think for right now we can take a little bit of an intervention so and we'll come back to it and just a brief so I'm going to go ahead and turn off the recording so that if you need to take a break for refreshment or, or any other break, we can do so. So we'll be back in just a few.
CM 44:56

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