Item
Terry Ehle Oral History, 2021/11/27
Media
Title (Dublin Core)
Terry Ehle Oral History, 2021/11/27
Description (Dublin Core)
Terry Ehle lives in Two Rivers, Wisconsin with her husband, three daughters, and two foster boys. She works as a librarian at the local public library. In this interview, Terry discusses the struggles she faces during the COVID pandemic trying to juggle such a large family and their many extra-curricular activities. Her daughters are involved in musical theater, sports, and international travel- all of which have been impacted by COVID. She struggles to manage all of these different activities together, all while trying to be a good mother and a good employee. Because of her situation, she has had to take a lot of time off of work and has found herself working many nights and weekends to make up for the lost time.
Recording Date (Dublin Core)
Creator (Dublin Core)
Contributor (Dublin Core)
Partner (Dublin Core)
Type (Dublin Core)
oral history
video
Controlled Vocabulary (Dublin Core)
English
Social Distance
English
Health & Wellness
English
Home & Family Life
English
Recreation & Leisure
English
Emotion
Curator's Tags (Omeka Classic)
Collection (Dublin Core)
Curatorial Notes (Dublin Core)
Date Submitted (Dublin Core)
05/01/2023
Date Modified (Dublin Core)
05/30/2023
06/29/2023
Date Created (Dublin Core)
11/27/2021
Interviewer (Bibliographic Ontology)
Sarah McMahon
Interviewee (Bibliographic Ontology)
Terry Ehle
Location (Omeka Classic)
Two Rivers
Wisonsin
United States of America
Format (Dublin Core)
video
Language (Dublin Core)
English
Duration (Omeka Classic)
00:32:41
abstract (Bibliographic Ontology)
Terry Ehle lives in Two Rivers, Wisconsin with her husband, three daughters, and two foster boys. She works as a librarian at the local public library. In this interview, Terry discusses the struggles she faces during the COVID pandemic trying to juggle such a large family and their many extra-curricular activities. Her daughters are involved in musical theater, sports, and international travel- all of which have been impacted by COVID. She struggles to manage all of these different activities together, all while trying to be a good mother and a good employee. Because of her situation, she has had to take a lot of time off of work and has found herself working many nights and weekends to make up for the lost time.
Transcription (Omeka Classic)
Sarah McMahon 00:00
All right, today is Saturday, November 27. And it's 10:35 in the morning. The COVID statistics, the total cases in the United States are 47,916,623. The total deaths are 773,779. Total cases in Wisconsin are 664,190. And the total deaths in Wisconsin are 68,964. The percent of United States people fully vaccinated are 59.1. All right, if I could have you state your name, please.
Terry Ehle 00:38
Terry Ehle.
SM00:39
Alright. And do you mind sharing demographic data for this study?
TE00:42
Sure.
SM00:43
All right. Can you tell me a little bit about where you live and your immediate community?
TE00:50
Sure. I live in Two Rivers, Wisconsin, it is a small community on the shores of Lake Michigan, we have about I don't know exact statistics about 12,000 people living in Two Rivers, predominantly white. What other kind of demographics do you need? Pretty quiet, isolated little town.
SM01:12
Anything about people you interact with, people you know?
TE01:17
Sure, I'd say most of our population is more blue collar, working in manufacturing or other part time work. We do have a pretty artsy community, though. So we do have no, we have a great library. If I do say so myself. In a good school system. Most of the people that I know personally, are working families that are just moving ahead day by day.
SM01:44
Okay. Before COVID What were some of the activities that match your day to day life?
TE01:50
Okay, well, I have three very active children. So we had a lot of activities going on. My girls were very involved in theater. So we were doing musical theater shows, we'd have practice two or three times a week easily. I had a daughter playing basketball. So she had practices and games. They, my two older daughters both work at a local grocery store, when COVID first hit, so they were working there throughout the pandemic. We just we're very, very involved. My husband works full time as a teacher, I work full time as a librarian. We just were very, very busy active family.
SM02:33
What were some of your thoughts when you first heard about COVID? And have they changed since then?
TE02:38
It was, you know, we were nervous. My husband and I, we always felt like it was very far away didn't really seem like it was here in Two Rivers. And I even feel like at the beginning of the pandemic, we didn't see it tons here. I feel like it's hitting more now than it did at the very beginning of COVID. The library board, the library where I work, they shut down within a week of things first starting to have some of those mandates. And we were closed for a couple of months before we were able to modify how we did things to reopen in order to do that safely for the public. So at first it felt almost like a little bit like a vacation. I didn't nobody thought it was going to last as long as it did. So I think we were all just like, Okay, we're just going to see what's happening. I'm going to keep my family safe. And we'll just- we'll just see what happens, basically, so all of my family lives away from here, I don't have any close family in town. My mom and dad live on the east coast with my brother, I have a brother- had two brothers at the time COVID started, two brothers in Illinois. And then my husband's family also lives south of us. So we didn't really have any close family. So we I was a little concerned as what we were going to do if the schools didn't reopen in regards to work and things like that. But just uncertainty, I think that would be the number one word throughout this whole time would be uncertainty.
SM04:08
That sounds pretty accurate.
TE04:09
Yes.
SM04:10
So would you say that's what's most concerned you is just not knowing what's going on from day to day?
TE04:17
Yes, that is definitely the hardest part about COVID for our family is just not knowing Is today the day that we're going to get it? Are we going to be quarantined? You know, am I going to be able to go to work tomorrow? There's been a lot of-as a working mother, you always have to balance the needs of your families with your job. You have to say, Okay, if something were to happen to one of my children tomorrow, do I have my work covered? That if I had to not be at work tomorrow, would it cost me my job? Would it cause trouble for my co workers like you always have to be balancing those kinds of things. Because with my husband being a teacher, I know everyone always talks about the great teacher schedule, but it's really actually not very convenient. It's very rigid and it's not easy to get off at the drop of a hat. So that's kind of my role in our family is to be that flexible employee so that my hours are a little bit more flexible. But it's hard with the job that I have with deadlines and things like that, okay, if I can't get this done tomorrow, when will I get it done, if one of my children falls sick, or if I can't go come to work for two weeks, like trying to figure out that kind of stuff is hard. You have to be very organized, when you have a lot of children. And especially when they're very involved, our schedule is incredible. So I need to know where everything's going to be in when so that I can make sure everybody's taken care of. And so not really knowing if the next day is going to be the way I thought in my head it was going to be causes me personally, a lot of stress.
SM05:44
So would you say you've had to get creative with your organization in balancing your life and work?
TE05:53
Yes
SM05:54
And children?
TE05:54
Absolutely. Because you always have to be thinking two weeks out, because COVID Quarantine is always two weeks out. And because of the jobs that my husband and I do, we don't have that luxury of, well, maybe I don't really have to quarantine like, you know, if my husband gets sick at school, and tests positive for COVID. Like, there's very strict guidelines, it gets reported immediately to the county health department, like there's no gray area, not-not that I would have used gray area, but it's, you know, it's two weeks, you know, and you'll be out for two weeks, and your family will be out for two weeks, and everybody has to test. And you know, at the very beginning, it wasn't even everybody had to test you just were out for two weeks. Like that's just everybody had to stay home until everybody was clear. I mean, it's relaxed a little bit since then, just because one person gets it doesn't mean the rest of the family's going to get it. But there's still that a lot of uncertainty about but so you kind of have to, you have to overly plan, you have to say okay, if you know, for example, I didn't really mention this before, but I actually have two foster kids that are in daycare, if they had a COVID Scare. This last- at the beginning of the school year, they- their daycare actually got shut down for three weeks, it had a two week quarantine, but then they didn't have enough employees healthy enough to come back for the third week. So I had to figure out alternative daycare for three weeks, it altered my work schedule completely. And because I don't have any family here, I had to had to find people to help fill in the holes. A lot of times I would be at home for a short time until my husband came home. And then I would be working evenings and weekends to make up all the hours that I was missing during those three weeks. And I you know, we're lucky enough that my job allows that. But it caused a lot of extra headache for my family.
SM07:39
Oh yeah,
TE07:40
Yeah, and me not being able to be there for them at the nighttime to help with homework and things like that, that kind of fell on my husband. It was it was a long, long, three weeks, a lot of going to work for a couple hours coming back. So a lot of interrupted workflow, which is sometimes can be difficult when you work in a creative job like mine, it's the hardest start and stop and start and stop. So
SM08:02
It sounds very difficult. Do you think that your relationship with- relationships with your children have changed?
TE08:10
You know, I will say that the- for the time that most of the world was kind of shut down in 2020- It was I mean, we got to spend more time together than we ever would have before, like, our calendar suddenly was clear, there was nothing on there, you know, I was still able to go to work during that time. But, and then we just have all of our nights and all of our weekends free, which hasn't been like that for years. So on one hand, that was wonderful, because we did get to spend a lot of time together. My oldest graduated in 2020. So you know, all of these end of- end of high school getting ready for the next like she would have been gone a lot she wouldn't, I wouldn't have seen her very much. She would have been very involved with a lot of activities, a lot of end of the year graduation parties, and all of that kind of was done. I mean, it just didn't happen and prom. So all of those kind of milestone events for her were taken away. But we were able to spend more time together which I really enjoyed. I don't know how she would feel 100% the same. But I would say that also was another, I’m not gonna say stressor as a parent, but trying to make that time meaningful. And trying to keep from just sitting at home every single day on our computers on our devices not interacting. I don't like my family to be like that. So I work hard, maybe harder to make sure that doesn't happen. So we were constantly trying to plan fun things to happen in the house during that COVID time, like we hosted our own prom here at home and we all dressed up and we had a special dinner and we put on music and danced and she does say that it was probably more fun than her original prom was gonna be. But trying to come up with creative activities like that. We had our own senior awards night here and family all made awards for each other. And that was a lot of fun. So we did stuff like that kind of- kind of goofy, but we were trying to- trying to keep things moving so that it didn't come down to all the things we were missing. But things that we wanted to try to do. Instead, we, you know, we'd have themed dinner nights and movie marathons, and try to plan things like that, we probably cooked better food during that whole time, I let the girls experiment a little bit more, which we probably would not have had time to do. So there, there were certain benefits to being home together all the time. But just that worry as a mom, that your kids are missing out on what they were supposed to be doing. And you know, worrying about not being able to see friends. And you know, it's such an important time of life is to be with your friends when you're a teenager. And so to have all that taken away, it just adds a little extra worry as a mom, because you want to make sure your kids come out of this relatively mentally unscathed. So we tried to have as much fun at home, as we could, without, you know, crawling up the walls and getting on each other's nerves, which with a house full of seven can be challenging, to say the least. So
SM11:25
How do you think they reacted to the whole thing?
TE11:28
I think, overall, they did pretty well. Frustration is probably the biggest emotion, I would say that they were feeling, you know, they just wanted to get together with their friends, like we did have a small circle that we just kind of allowed. I know at that time, they're saying don't be together with anybody. But we have a family that we're pretty close to and our kids all kind of line up. So that was just kind of our small circle. And we just allowed that group to be together the whole time during COVID. So that helped a lot. So we weren't completely isolated. I do know that one of my daughters was very, she felt very isolated from her friend group. And it was just it was a hard year just really feeling alone, which I think is probably pretty common for COVID is just not feeling like you can connect with anybody. So that was a little bit of a struggle. But overall, I feel that they have very positive memories of the things that we did during that time. They didn't enjoy school. So that was definitely a down. You know, it's like, you know, you school in general, you know, I don't think kids really enjoy it that much overall. It's not like their favorite thing to do. But they did miss out on that. And we're very, like I said, we're a very musical theater family. So not being able to perform was very hard. They were in the middle of a show when COVID hit. So that all got put on hold for quite a long time. They- I had two girls that were going on an international trip for high school that all got put on hold. So those-those waitings and just not being able to do those things I think was hard. And not knowing when- if ever it was going to happen was you know, you save and save and save and then just to have it taken away is just like [sighs] it’s rough.
SM13:14
Have you been able to get any of those activities or trips back since then?
TE13:16
So they're still waiting on their international trip got canceled again last summer. We're hopeful that it's going to take place this June. But I don't know things aren't looking so good for some variants that are going around in the world. So I'm not sure about international travel for a while. But my oldest went away to specifically chose a school that had long term study short term study abroad opportunities. And she wasn't able to do that her first year of college. So that was very frustrating because you spend a lot of money on college, you want to get what you wanted out of it. So, but we're hopeful that that's going to happen again. And then the show that they were working on did end up picking up where they left off and they were able to- finally able to perform it this summer. So that was wonderful. So they enjoyed that. A lot. But some things just were done.
SM14:06
Some things you just can't get back
TE14:08
Yep. Yeah, graduation, prom, those kinds of things. You just can't, can't get back. COVID just kind of puts a little bit of a pall on things. It's just nothing is 100% what you were hoping it to be, it's just a little bit less because you can do just a little bit less. So
SM14:26
Do you feel like even though you lost something, do you feel like COVID has changed how you view those things like prom or graduation? Do you feel like it just changed how the how valuable those things are? To your family?
TE14:42
Kind of sometimes I think, you know, when you're young, you're like, oh my gosh, that was the most important thing and I didn't get it. But I was really pleased with how our community came together for the seniors that graduated that year. They did some different things that I think were was a lot of fun. You know, they put the band downtown with each of the seniors on there, I thought that was really neat, they did a parade for the seniors, that was a lot of fun. Graduation was probably not quite the same. But you know, they still they still did it, they still accomplished that. And I, I hope it puts some things in perspective, for the girls that, you know, it's just a day, it's a day out of a very long life of experiences. And in reality, you'll probably remember the COVID experience more than you would have remembered just the regular run of the mill, because you know, is unique and different and something other than what you would have normally experienced. So I'm hoping they'll take that away from it, rather than this is what we got to do instead of this is what we didn't get to do. But
SM15:47
We got to be the pandemic class.
TE15:50
It's like, I'm really hoping that they'll get at least get to go on their trip, because that's the one that's kind of hanging over our head because we have a lot of money invested in that and they don't want to lose that money. And they would do something else with it. If they didn't get to go on that trip. So.
SM16:06
So how would you say the pandemic has affected your community?
TE16:11
Unfortunately, I think it's really divided our community as a lot of parts of our world right now. It's really divided against who thinks it's really a threat and who doesn't think it's a really a threat, unfortunately, vaccinated versus unvaccinated. You know, my girls experienced that even at school, you know, as they're still masking, while their classmates are not masking. It's very frustrating. They had a big production this fall that they work on- they had been working on since summer. Very, you know, as my daughter's last musical theater production at the high school, it was very important to her and we had, we had a COVID Scare right before it happened. And there was, it was, so it was very stressful for everyone involved in our family, just because we just wanted to get through the production. But we didn't want to put anybody at risk. And then there were people who are not being as careful that it just made it feel very, you know, every day I was like, if we can just get through this week, nobody be sniffling, nobody be coughing, please, can we just get through this. And then we did have a cast member come test positive for COVID. Luckily, a little bit over two weeks from the show. So we were able to get through that. But the cast member was one of our close friends, we had been with them. So we all had to get tested. We went through another couple days of a COVID quarantine scare, which actually was our fourth time dealing with that.
SM17:38
Oh, boy.
TE17:39
So it was very just like, oh, my gosh, haven't we done this enough? Do we really have to all go get tested again? And I remember sitting in the doctor's office with all seven of us. And actually my oldest was at college. So the six of us, and the doctor being like, oh my gosh, a family of six is in here to get tested. Like it was a big deal. And I was just like, we were all together. We we all have to get tested to figure out if we have it. Luckily we all tested negative.
SM18:05
That's good.
TE18:06
Yeah. But it feels like that constant weighting of when is it going to be positive? When is it going to be positive? I do not like that. hanging over my head. So
SM18:17
So you feel like COVID is definitely added to some health anxiety?
TE18:21
Yes, I you know, we have two toddlers in the house. They sniffle cough, they have germs like crazy, but it feels so much more. Like, this is the time you know, why are they why are they coughing, like just feel so much more risky than it used to. And you know, little kids get fevers all the time, but every time they have a fever now the back of your head is okay. Is this COVID? You know, and how do you know when it is and when it's not? How do you know when you should test and when you shouldn't test and just as a parent and as a working parent, you know, you're like okay two years ago, I would have sent them to school- not with a fever. But you know, sent them to school with a sniffle. But now you feel like you're endangering the whole planet. If you have a little booger in your nose. You know, it's like, oh my gosh, I have to keep them home for 10 days to make sure that they're not sick. So, but so then you have all these false alarms that are like, Okay, I stayed home with them, but I didn't really need to stay home. You know, it's that balancing act of how many times will my employer allow me to take off three days in the middle of the week to make sure it's not COVID? And so there's a lot of that, that that aspect is just you know, you don't want to admit to anybody that you were coughing this morning. He's just like don't say anything. I don't have COVID and I'm pretty sure I don't it but it's always I'm pretty sure I don't you don't really know you don't know. So there's there's some fear there.
SM19:45
Are you worried about your job? Or your employer?
TE19:48
I am not because luckily my employer is very concerned about COVID as well. Our library is is very cautious we we still are not doing in person programming even though the rest of the world has really gone back to that, we still are encouraging masks and still wearing a mask at work every single day, even though our entire staff is vaccinated, like, we still are very cautious and watching the numbers in our county. And we're just we're open for business, we're doing everything that we can, but it's still not back to where it was pre COVID. So he's luckily is very, my boss is very good about understanding that he doesn't want me to come to work sick, because he doesn't want to endanger the rest of the staff. So he's very good. But I feel like if he wasn't that way, it would be a totally different conversation.
SM20:38
He sounds like he understands your situation and has known you for a while.
TE20:41
Yes, I've worked there for a long time. And because of the hours that were open, and the nature of my job, I am able to work nights and weekends if I need to, to make up the work that I'm missing during a regular work day. So I'm very lucky that way. And I, I almost feel bad complaining about the stresses of work, because I very lucky that because so many people are not that way at all. So I'm very lucky.
SM21:06
But it's still stressful. It's still a lot to juggle.
TE21:11
Yes, yes, it is.
SM21:15
I would wonder Have you noticed any patterns with the ways that people around you respond to the pandemic?
TE21:22
I certainly, I certainly have noticed, it's interesting, because when you work at the library, a great portion of the clientele is elderly, you know, a lot of people that would be in that high risk category for getting getting COVID that could be deadly to them. So a lot of people, you know, they're, they're still very thankful that the library is open, but they really appreciate the precautions that we have we had been taking during the when everything was kind of shut down. But then you also have that other group that doesn't, that looks at you almost with scorn that you're wearing a mask that you're still worrying about it. You know, there's definitely two attitudes about COVID that, oh, well, you're going to get it or we're not going to get it, why are we worrying about it? And then those who want everyone to be a little bit more precautious. So it is it is interesting, and sometimes the people who were really cautious before are not anymore, like and, and there's also a lot of people who like, you know, they've gotten their vaccines, and now they think, Oh, I'm Superman, I've never gonna have any problems with it. But yeah, so it's, it's different. And there is that weariness of, I just, I don't want to think about anymore, I don't want to I just if we get it, we get it, I just, I don't want to be thinking about it every day. And if it was just myself, I might even fall into that category myself. But unfortunately, with children, you have to worry about the other people they come in contact with. And I just know, my girls would be devastated if they thought they got somebody sick, like that would bother them, you know. So we have to be aware of that and do our best.
SM23:02
Have you been able to maintain communication with your extended family and friends in the same way since the pandemic?
TE23:08
Yes, for the most part, my parents are kind of in the if we get it, we get it? They don't they're not as cautious as the rest of us. So they've still been able to come visit us and return home. And luckily, knock on wood, nobody's nobody's really gotten sick in our family. I did I did have some relatives get sick, but nothing life threatening, thankfully. But yeah, we're still we still talk.
SM23:37
Any of your relationships with people close to you changed because of the pandemic?
TE23:42
Not, not really, I've really kind of tried to allow people to feel the way that they need to feel about it. We kind of have been doing what we're doing. And then if they want to do something else, that's their choice. We might not necessarily go along with it. We might not- I mean, we haven't gone to all family gatherings because of it. But so far, everybody seems to be pretty civil about it in my family. I know that's not the case for everybody, but for our family. It's been going okay.
SM24:18
how do you think the pandemic is affecting people's physical and mental health? Besides the obvious people are getting sick?
TE24:28
Sure. Well, I don't know if I can talk too much about physical health. I do feel that people are much more guarded than they used to be afraid to really state their opinion because they're not really sure where anybody stands and they don't want to be lumped into either category. You know, talking with patrons at the library, they just everybody's kind of keeping their head down. Like they don't really want to share this kind of talk. Either or the complete opposite. You know, they just want to rant and rave about how horrible it is. And we're so sick and tired of it which I think most of us are kind of feeling. I think I think I just really think people are tired. They're just really weary of the whole conversation. And, you know, that uncertainty is just is the greatest feeling because it's just you don't you never know, if you're making the right decision, like, if you, you know, ignore this fever and just let it kind of ride itself out, is it an unsympathetic case of COVID? Or, you know, and it's just, it's just very exhausting. The constant worrying about don't take them into why not take them in? You know, and I've had a couple surgeries during this time, that, that adds a whole other layer of COVID. Because you're just like, Okay, I have to, you know, I can't have sore throat, I can't have a cough, I can't I have to get COVID tested before surgery. And it's like, waiting for the results of that. And it's like, Okay, do I have it and not even know that I have it? Like, I just, ah, like it just let's get through this week, and then see if we can make it through another week. It's really, like I said, uncertain. Just really not sure what the next week's gonna bring.
SM26:02
Have you had comfortable access to COVID tests? Because I know some people haven't.
TE26:07
Sure. Yeah, for the most part, at the beginning, it was a little bit harder I felt, because it wasn't necessarily close by, or as immediate as what we really needed for our family. You know, it's like, you know, my husband's a teacher, he needs to know pretty quickly if he has it or not, and whether or not he can return to his classroom. Because, you know, I'm sure all schools districts are having problems with this. But the lack of subs, people get people wanting to come in and sub during this pandemic time is, is limited. And so him not being at work causes stress for his co workers, because then they need to either sub for his classroom, which is not very fun, or they're trying to find subs, and they can't. So the immediacy is probably the hardest part. We want to know as quickly as possible, whether or not we have it so we can continue on. And it was a little bit harder in the beginning, but now the schools school district offers testing right there at school. So the our last time we were able to get tested within an hour and find out within an hour, whether or not it was so that was great.
SM27:10
That's helpful.
TE27:11
Yes, it was very helpful.
SM27:15
So have you had any problems accessing information about or the vaccine itself?
TE27:21
We did not. Because my husband's a teacher, he was able to get vaccinated pretty quickly. And then as a city employee, they had a special deal for city employees. So we were able to go get ours very quickly. And as soon as the girls were approved, because their age, I think both of our health groups were really good about having clinics that you could just go so we actually didn't have any trouble getting vaccinated.
SM27:51
Are there any problems with vaccine accessibility that you would be aware of?
TE27:57
No, not here, not in our area, we've been pretty lucky. Because even now, you can still like most of us can get our boosters now already pretty easily. Because we have Walgreens and they they offer it several, actually several places, offer it around here. So we've actually been very lucky. And I feel like the COVID Vaccine Information for college students is incredible. I mean, you can go right on campus and get whatever you need. So even my oldest daughter has not had any trouble getting that stuff. So
SM28:31
How has the media and news affected your levels of anxiety or mental health or thoughts about the pandemic?
TE28:40
So I am not a super news watcher, because I find it very frustrating. And it fuels my anxiety. And I, I just tried very hard not to let it get the best of me. I don't spend hours on social media, it's not my favorite thing. I try. I tried to, you know, I have a couple friends who are doctors, so I just try really more to listen to their advice. And I would encourage most people to do that find somebody you trust, rather than just to listen to all the chatter that's out there. As a librarian, we know how skewed skewed social media can be. So what you're watching isn't necessarily the whole truth, you're really only getting half the story all the time, I think. So I just try to not let that overwhelm me. And then, if I am unsure, I just tried to ask somebody that I know. I feel trusted, you know, like especially like when it came to vaccines and kids and my youngest daughter has some issues. I wasn't sure I wanted to get her vaccinated at first. So I made sure that I called her doctor and talk to her doctor and didn't follow what people were saying online to ask whether or not she should get it and if they thought it was going to be safe and things like that. So I just tried to focus more on the people that I think are telling me the truth, rather than just putting guess work into it so.
SM30:03
So knowing what you do now, where we are in the pandemic, what do you think-I guess- what do you think we should keep in mind? What do you think we did wrong? And then what do you think we should do going into the future? Should there be-God forbid-another pandemic?
TE30:21
Sure. Well, I definitely believe that we should have been more strict with our shutdown. For the first at least first two weeks, I think we all should have really just stayed home. I think their their definition of essential workers was too broad. I, there was a lot of things that I'm like, No, if we all could have just taken a two week break, I think maybe we could have gotten through this a lot faster. And I just wish that you know, moving forward, I'm not really sure how we're going to fix what has fundamentally broken in our, in our society, I, it's become too political. And we're mixing science and opinion, which I think is very dangerous. Because if you can't believe the science, because you think it's somebody's opinion, as opposed to what they've proven, I don't know how you can really combat that. I, I It scares me if something more worse were to come around, not that COVID isn't worse, because it is it's terrible. But if, you know, something came through that had more like a 50% fatality rate, like I'm not sure what we would do. And it really seems that people aren't willing to believe it's real until it's affected them personally, you know, until they see somebody they know or love die because of it. I feel like nobody's going to take it- they won't take it seriously until that actually happens. So it's very scary to me as to what what's going to happen next. In the fact that there are still so many people who aren't vaccinated- who aren't willing to get vaccinated who are fighting the system that should be working for all of us is very, very frustrating to me. But I wish at the beginning, we all had just taken it all a bit more seriously and just stayed home for two weeks. Maybe we could be done. Maybe we wouldn't need to be having a public history archive of how it affected people. Because it's still ongoing. I don't think it's ending anytime soon. I don't think we're going to feel relaxed about COVID for quite a while yet.
SM32:23
Maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation in November of 2021.
TE32:27
Right, right. Exactly. Here we are almost a year and a half later. And we're still still the number one topic of conversation, unfortunately.
SM32:36
All right. Well, thank you very much for your time.
TE32:39
You’re welcome.
All right, today is Saturday, November 27. And it's 10:35 in the morning. The COVID statistics, the total cases in the United States are 47,916,623. The total deaths are 773,779. Total cases in Wisconsin are 664,190. And the total deaths in Wisconsin are 68,964. The percent of United States people fully vaccinated are 59.1. All right, if I could have you state your name, please.
Terry Ehle 00:38
Terry Ehle.
SM00:39
Alright. And do you mind sharing demographic data for this study?
TE00:42
Sure.
SM00:43
All right. Can you tell me a little bit about where you live and your immediate community?
TE00:50
Sure. I live in Two Rivers, Wisconsin, it is a small community on the shores of Lake Michigan, we have about I don't know exact statistics about 12,000 people living in Two Rivers, predominantly white. What other kind of demographics do you need? Pretty quiet, isolated little town.
SM01:12
Anything about people you interact with, people you know?
TE01:17
Sure, I'd say most of our population is more blue collar, working in manufacturing or other part time work. We do have a pretty artsy community, though. So we do have no, we have a great library. If I do say so myself. In a good school system. Most of the people that I know personally, are working families that are just moving ahead day by day.
SM01:44
Okay. Before COVID What were some of the activities that match your day to day life?
TE01:50
Okay, well, I have three very active children. So we had a lot of activities going on. My girls were very involved in theater. So we were doing musical theater shows, we'd have practice two or three times a week easily. I had a daughter playing basketball. So she had practices and games. They, my two older daughters both work at a local grocery store, when COVID first hit, so they were working there throughout the pandemic. We just we're very, very involved. My husband works full time as a teacher, I work full time as a librarian. We just were very, very busy active family.
SM02:33
What were some of your thoughts when you first heard about COVID? And have they changed since then?
TE02:38
It was, you know, we were nervous. My husband and I, we always felt like it was very far away didn't really seem like it was here in Two Rivers. And I even feel like at the beginning of the pandemic, we didn't see it tons here. I feel like it's hitting more now than it did at the very beginning of COVID. The library board, the library where I work, they shut down within a week of things first starting to have some of those mandates. And we were closed for a couple of months before we were able to modify how we did things to reopen in order to do that safely for the public. So at first it felt almost like a little bit like a vacation. I didn't nobody thought it was going to last as long as it did. So I think we were all just like, Okay, we're just going to see what's happening. I'm going to keep my family safe. And we'll just- we'll just see what happens, basically, so all of my family lives away from here, I don't have any close family in town. My mom and dad live on the east coast with my brother, I have a brother- had two brothers at the time COVID started, two brothers in Illinois. And then my husband's family also lives south of us. So we didn't really have any close family. So we I was a little concerned as what we were going to do if the schools didn't reopen in regards to work and things like that. But just uncertainty, I think that would be the number one word throughout this whole time would be uncertainty.
SM04:08
That sounds pretty accurate.
TE04:09
Yes.
SM04:10
So would you say that's what's most concerned you is just not knowing what's going on from day to day?
TE04:17
Yes, that is definitely the hardest part about COVID for our family is just not knowing Is today the day that we're going to get it? Are we going to be quarantined? You know, am I going to be able to go to work tomorrow? There's been a lot of-as a working mother, you always have to balance the needs of your families with your job. You have to say, Okay, if something were to happen to one of my children tomorrow, do I have my work covered? That if I had to not be at work tomorrow, would it cost me my job? Would it cause trouble for my co workers like you always have to be balancing those kinds of things. Because with my husband being a teacher, I know everyone always talks about the great teacher schedule, but it's really actually not very convenient. It's very rigid and it's not easy to get off at the drop of a hat. So that's kind of my role in our family is to be that flexible employee so that my hours are a little bit more flexible. But it's hard with the job that I have with deadlines and things like that, okay, if I can't get this done tomorrow, when will I get it done, if one of my children falls sick, or if I can't go come to work for two weeks, like trying to figure out that kind of stuff is hard. You have to be very organized, when you have a lot of children. And especially when they're very involved, our schedule is incredible. So I need to know where everything's going to be in when so that I can make sure everybody's taken care of. And so not really knowing if the next day is going to be the way I thought in my head it was going to be causes me personally, a lot of stress.
SM05:44
So would you say you've had to get creative with your organization in balancing your life and work?
TE05:53
Yes
SM05:54
And children?
TE05:54
Absolutely. Because you always have to be thinking two weeks out, because COVID Quarantine is always two weeks out. And because of the jobs that my husband and I do, we don't have that luxury of, well, maybe I don't really have to quarantine like, you know, if my husband gets sick at school, and tests positive for COVID. Like, there's very strict guidelines, it gets reported immediately to the county health department, like there's no gray area, not-not that I would have used gray area, but it's, you know, it's two weeks, you know, and you'll be out for two weeks, and your family will be out for two weeks, and everybody has to test. And you know, at the very beginning, it wasn't even everybody had to test you just were out for two weeks. Like that's just everybody had to stay home until everybody was clear. I mean, it's relaxed a little bit since then, just because one person gets it doesn't mean the rest of the family's going to get it. But there's still that a lot of uncertainty about but so you kind of have to, you have to overly plan, you have to say okay, if you know, for example, I didn't really mention this before, but I actually have two foster kids that are in daycare, if they had a COVID Scare. This last- at the beginning of the school year, they- their daycare actually got shut down for three weeks, it had a two week quarantine, but then they didn't have enough employees healthy enough to come back for the third week. So I had to figure out alternative daycare for three weeks, it altered my work schedule completely. And because I don't have any family here, I had to had to find people to help fill in the holes. A lot of times I would be at home for a short time until my husband came home. And then I would be working evenings and weekends to make up all the hours that I was missing during those three weeks. And I you know, we're lucky enough that my job allows that. But it caused a lot of extra headache for my family.
SM07:39
Oh yeah,
TE07:40
Yeah, and me not being able to be there for them at the nighttime to help with homework and things like that, that kind of fell on my husband. It was it was a long, long, three weeks, a lot of going to work for a couple hours coming back. So a lot of interrupted workflow, which is sometimes can be difficult when you work in a creative job like mine, it's the hardest start and stop and start and stop. So
SM08:02
It sounds very difficult. Do you think that your relationship with- relationships with your children have changed?
TE08:10
You know, I will say that the- for the time that most of the world was kind of shut down in 2020- It was I mean, we got to spend more time together than we ever would have before, like, our calendar suddenly was clear, there was nothing on there, you know, I was still able to go to work during that time. But, and then we just have all of our nights and all of our weekends free, which hasn't been like that for years. So on one hand, that was wonderful, because we did get to spend a lot of time together. My oldest graduated in 2020. So you know, all of these end of- end of high school getting ready for the next like she would have been gone a lot she wouldn't, I wouldn't have seen her very much. She would have been very involved with a lot of activities, a lot of end of the year graduation parties, and all of that kind of was done. I mean, it just didn't happen and prom. So all of those kind of milestone events for her were taken away. But we were able to spend more time together which I really enjoyed. I don't know how she would feel 100% the same. But I would say that also was another, I’m not gonna say stressor as a parent, but trying to make that time meaningful. And trying to keep from just sitting at home every single day on our computers on our devices not interacting. I don't like my family to be like that. So I work hard, maybe harder to make sure that doesn't happen. So we were constantly trying to plan fun things to happen in the house during that COVID time, like we hosted our own prom here at home and we all dressed up and we had a special dinner and we put on music and danced and she does say that it was probably more fun than her original prom was gonna be. But trying to come up with creative activities like that. We had our own senior awards night here and family all made awards for each other. And that was a lot of fun. So we did stuff like that kind of- kind of goofy, but we were trying to- trying to keep things moving so that it didn't come down to all the things we were missing. But things that we wanted to try to do. Instead, we, you know, we'd have themed dinner nights and movie marathons, and try to plan things like that, we probably cooked better food during that whole time, I let the girls experiment a little bit more, which we probably would not have had time to do. So there, there were certain benefits to being home together all the time. But just that worry as a mom, that your kids are missing out on what they were supposed to be doing. And you know, worrying about not being able to see friends. And you know, it's such an important time of life is to be with your friends when you're a teenager. And so to have all that taken away, it just adds a little extra worry as a mom, because you want to make sure your kids come out of this relatively mentally unscathed. So we tried to have as much fun at home, as we could, without, you know, crawling up the walls and getting on each other's nerves, which with a house full of seven can be challenging, to say the least. So
SM11:25
How do you think they reacted to the whole thing?
TE11:28
I think, overall, they did pretty well. Frustration is probably the biggest emotion, I would say that they were feeling, you know, they just wanted to get together with their friends, like we did have a small circle that we just kind of allowed. I know at that time, they're saying don't be together with anybody. But we have a family that we're pretty close to and our kids all kind of line up. So that was just kind of our small circle. And we just allowed that group to be together the whole time during COVID. So that helped a lot. So we weren't completely isolated. I do know that one of my daughters was very, she felt very isolated from her friend group. And it was just it was a hard year just really feeling alone, which I think is probably pretty common for COVID is just not feeling like you can connect with anybody. So that was a little bit of a struggle. But overall, I feel that they have very positive memories of the things that we did during that time. They didn't enjoy school. So that was definitely a down. You know, it's like, you know, you school in general, you know, I don't think kids really enjoy it that much overall. It's not like their favorite thing to do. But they did miss out on that. And we're very, like I said, we're a very musical theater family. So not being able to perform was very hard. They were in the middle of a show when COVID hit. So that all got put on hold for quite a long time. They- I had two girls that were going on an international trip for high school that all got put on hold. So those-those waitings and just not being able to do those things I think was hard. And not knowing when- if ever it was going to happen was you know, you save and save and save and then just to have it taken away is just like [sighs] it’s rough.
SM13:14
Have you been able to get any of those activities or trips back since then?
TE13:16
So they're still waiting on their international trip got canceled again last summer. We're hopeful that it's going to take place this June. But I don't know things aren't looking so good for some variants that are going around in the world. So I'm not sure about international travel for a while. But my oldest went away to specifically chose a school that had long term study short term study abroad opportunities. And she wasn't able to do that her first year of college. So that was very frustrating because you spend a lot of money on college, you want to get what you wanted out of it. So, but we're hopeful that that's going to happen again. And then the show that they were working on did end up picking up where they left off and they were able to- finally able to perform it this summer. So that was wonderful. So they enjoyed that. A lot. But some things just were done.
SM14:06
Some things you just can't get back
TE14:08
Yep. Yeah, graduation, prom, those kinds of things. You just can't, can't get back. COVID just kind of puts a little bit of a pall on things. It's just nothing is 100% what you were hoping it to be, it's just a little bit less because you can do just a little bit less. So
SM14:26
Do you feel like even though you lost something, do you feel like COVID has changed how you view those things like prom or graduation? Do you feel like it just changed how the how valuable those things are? To your family?
TE14:42
Kind of sometimes I think, you know, when you're young, you're like, oh my gosh, that was the most important thing and I didn't get it. But I was really pleased with how our community came together for the seniors that graduated that year. They did some different things that I think were was a lot of fun. You know, they put the band downtown with each of the seniors on there, I thought that was really neat, they did a parade for the seniors, that was a lot of fun. Graduation was probably not quite the same. But you know, they still they still did it, they still accomplished that. And I, I hope it puts some things in perspective, for the girls that, you know, it's just a day, it's a day out of a very long life of experiences. And in reality, you'll probably remember the COVID experience more than you would have remembered just the regular run of the mill, because you know, is unique and different and something other than what you would have normally experienced. So I'm hoping they'll take that away from it, rather than this is what we got to do instead of this is what we didn't get to do. But
SM15:47
We got to be the pandemic class.
TE15:50
It's like, I'm really hoping that they'll get at least get to go on their trip, because that's the one that's kind of hanging over our head because we have a lot of money invested in that and they don't want to lose that money. And they would do something else with it. If they didn't get to go on that trip. So.
SM16:06
So how would you say the pandemic has affected your community?
TE16:11
Unfortunately, I think it's really divided our community as a lot of parts of our world right now. It's really divided against who thinks it's really a threat and who doesn't think it's a really a threat, unfortunately, vaccinated versus unvaccinated. You know, my girls experienced that even at school, you know, as they're still masking, while their classmates are not masking. It's very frustrating. They had a big production this fall that they work on- they had been working on since summer. Very, you know, as my daughter's last musical theater production at the high school, it was very important to her and we had, we had a COVID Scare right before it happened. And there was, it was, so it was very stressful for everyone involved in our family, just because we just wanted to get through the production. But we didn't want to put anybody at risk. And then there were people who are not being as careful that it just made it feel very, you know, every day I was like, if we can just get through this week, nobody be sniffling, nobody be coughing, please, can we just get through this. And then we did have a cast member come test positive for COVID. Luckily, a little bit over two weeks from the show. So we were able to get through that. But the cast member was one of our close friends, we had been with them. So we all had to get tested. We went through another couple days of a COVID quarantine scare, which actually was our fourth time dealing with that.
SM17:38
Oh, boy.
TE17:39
So it was very just like, oh, my gosh, haven't we done this enough? Do we really have to all go get tested again? And I remember sitting in the doctor's office with all seven of us. And actually my oldest was at college. So the six of us, and the doctor being like, oh my gosh, a family of six is in here to get tested. Like it was a big deal. And I was just like, we were all together. We we all have to get tested to figure out if we have it. Luckily we all tested negative.
SM18:05
That's good.
TE18:06
Yeah. But it feels like that constant weighting of when is it going to be positive? When is it going to be positive? I do not like that. hanging over my head. So
SM18:17
So you feel like COVID is definitely added to some health anxiety?
TE18:21
Yes, I you know, we have two toddlers in the house. They sniffle cough, they have germs like crazy, but it feels so much more. Like, this is the time you know, why are they why are they coughing, like just feel so much more risky than it used to. And you know, little kids get fevers all the time, but every time they have a fever now the back of your head is okay. Is this COVID? You know, and how do you know when it is and when it's not? How do you know when you should test and when you shouldn't test and just as a parent and as a working parent, you know, you're like okay two years ago, I would have sent them to school- not with a fever. But you know, sent them to school with a sniffle. But now you feel like you're endangering the whole planet. If you have a little booger in your nose. You know, it's like, oh my gosh, I have to keep them home for 10 days to make sure that they're not sick. So, but so then you have all these false alarms that are like, Okay, I stayed home with them, but I didn't really need to stay home. You know, it's that balancing act of how many times will my employer allow me to take off three days in the middle of the week to make sure it's not COVID? And so there's a lot of that, that that aspect is just you know, you don't want to admit to anybody that you were coughing this morning. He's just like don't say anything. I don't have COVID and I'm pretty sure I don't it but it's always I'm pretty sure I don't you don't really know you don't know. So there's there's some fear there.
SM19:45
Are you worried about your job? Or your employer?
TE19:48
I am not because luckily my employer is very concerned about COVID as well. Our library is is very cautious we we still are not doing in person programming even though the rest of the world has really gone back to that, we still are encouraging masks and still wearing a mask at work every single day, even though our entire staff is vaccinated, like, we still are very cautious and watching the numbers in our county. And we're just we're open for business, we're doing everything that we can, but it's still not back to where it was pre COVID. So he's luckily is very, my boss is very good about understanding that he doesn't want me to come to work sick, because he doesn't want to endanger the rest of the staff. So he's very good. But I feel like if he wasn't that way, it would be a totally different conversation.
SM20:38
He sounds like he understands your situation and has known you for a while.
TE20:41
Yes, I've worked there for a long time. And because of the hours that were open, and the nature of my job, I am able to work nights and weekends if I need to, to make up the work that I'm missing during a regular work day. So I'm very lucky that way. And I, I almost feel bad complaining about the stresses of work, because I very lucky that because so many people are not that way at all. So I'm very lucky.
SM21:06
But it's still stressful. It's still a lot to juggle.
TE21:11
Yes, yes, it is.
SM21:15
I would wonder Have you noticed any patterns with the ways that people around you respond to the pandemic?
TE21:22
I certainly, I certainly have noticed, it's interesting, because when you work at the library, a great portion of the clientele is elderly, you know, a lot of people that would be in that high risk category for getting getting COVID that could be deadly to them. So a lot of people, you know, they're, they're still very thankful that the library is open, but they really appreciate the precautions that we have we had been taking during the when everything was kind of shut down. But then you also have that other group that doesn't, that looks at you almost with scorn that you're wearing a mask that you're still worrying about it. You know, there's definitely two attitudes about COVID that, oh, well, you're going to get it or we're not going to get it, why are we worrying about it? And then those who want everyone to be a little bit more precautious. So it is it is interesting, and sometimes the people who were really cautious before are not anymore, like and, and there's also a lot of people who like, you know, they've gotten their vaccines, and now they think, Oh, I'm Superman, I've never gonna have any problems with it. But yeah, so it's, it's different. And there is that weariness of, I just, I don't want to think about anymore, I don't want to I just if we get it, we get it, I just, I don't want to be thinking about it every day. And if it was just myself, I might even fall into that category myself. But unfortunately, with children, you have to worry about the other people they come in contact with. And I just know, my girls would be devastated if they thought they got somebody sick, like that would bother them, you know. So we have to be aware of that and do our best.
SM23:02
Have you been able to maintain communication with your extended family and friends in the same way since the pandemic?
TE23:08
Yes, for the most part, my parents are kind of in the if we get it, we get it? They don't they're not as cautious as the rest of us. So they've still been able to come visit us and return home. And luckily, knock on wood, nobody's nobody's really gotten sick in our family. I did I did have some relatives get sick, but nothing life threatening, thankfully. But yeah, we're still we still talk.
SM23:37
Any of your relationships with people close to you changed because of the pandemic?
TE23:42
Not, not really, I've really kind of tried to allow people to feel the way that they need to feel about it. We kind of have been doing what we're doing. And then if they want to do something else, that's their choice. We might not necessarily go along with it. We might not- I mean, we haven't gone to all family gatherings because of it. But so far, everybody seems to be pretty civil about it in my family. I know that's not the case for everybody, but for our family. It's been going okay.
SM24:18
how do you think the pandemic is affecting people's physical and mental health? Besides the obvious people are getting sick?
TE24:28
Sure. Well, I don't know if I can talk too much about physical health. I do feel that people are much more guarded than they used to be afraid to really state their opinion because they're not really sure where anybody stands and they don't want to be lumped into either category. You know, talking with patrons at the library, they just everybody's kind of keeping their head down. Like they don't really want to share this kind of talk. Either or the complete opposite. You know, they just want to rant and rave about how horrible it is. And we're so sick and tired of it which I think most of us are kind of feeling. I think I think I just really think people are tired. They're just really weary of the whole conversation. And, you know, that uncertainty is just is the greatest feeling because it's just you don't you never know, if you're making the right decision, like, if you, you know, ignore this fever and just let it kind of ride itself out, is it an unsympathetic case of COVID? Or, you know, and it's just, it's just very exhausting. The constant worrying about don't take them into why not take them in? You know, and I've had a couple surgeries during this time, that, that adds a whole other layer of COVID. Because you're just like, Okay, I have to, you know, I can't have sore throat, I can't have a cough, I can't I have to get COVID tested before surgery. And it's like, waiting for the results of that. And it's like, Okay, do I have it and not even know that I have it? Like, I just, ah, like it just let's get through this week, and then see if we can make it through another week. It's really, like I said, uncertain. Just really not sure what the next week's gonna bring.
SM26:02
Have you had comfortable access to COVID tests? Because I know some people haven't.
TE26:07
Sure. Yeah, for the most part, at the beginning, it was a little bit harder I felt, because it wasn't necessarily close by, or as immediate as what we really needed for our family. You know, it's like, you know, my husband's a teacher, he needs to know pretty quickly if he has it or not, and whether or not he can return to his classroom. Because, you know, I'm sure all schools districts are having problems with this. But the lack of subs, people get people wanting to come in and sub during this pandemic time is, is limited. And so him not being at work causes stress for his co workers, because then they need to either sub for his classroom, which is not very fun, or they're trying to find subs, and they can't. So the immediacy is probably the hardest part. We want to know as quickly as possible, whether or not we have it so we can continue on. And it was a little bit harder in the beginning, but now the schools school district offers testing right there at school. So the our last time we were able to get tested within an hour and find out within an hour, whether or not it was so that was great.
SM27:10
That's helpful.
TE27:11
Yes, it was very helpful.
SM27:15
So have you had any problems accessing information about or the vaccine itself?
TE27:21
We did not. Because my husband's a teacher, he was able to get vaccinated pretty quickly. And then as a city employee, they had a special deal for city employees. So we were able to go get ours very quickly. And as soon as the girls were approved, because their age, I think both of our health groups were really good about having clinics that you could just go so we actually didn't have any trouble getting vaccinated.
SM27:51
Are there any problems with vaccine accessibility that you would be aware of?
TE27:57
No, not here, not in our area, we've been pretty lucky. Because even now, you can still like most of us can get our boosters now already pretty easily. Because we have Walgreens and they they offer it several, actually several places, offer it around here. So we've actually been very lucky. And I feel like the COVID Vaccine Information for college students is incredible. I mean, you can go right on campus and get whatever you need. So even my oldest daughter has not had any trouble getting that stuff. So
SM28:31
How has the media and news affected your levels of anxiety or mental health or thoughts about the pandemic?
TE28:40
So I am not a super news watcher, because I find it very frustrating. And it fuels my anxiety. And I, I just tried very hard not to let it get the best of me. I don't spend hours on social media, it's not my favorite thing. I try. I tried to, you know, I have a couple friends who are doctors, so I just try really more to listen to their advice. And I would encourage most people to do that find somebody you trust, rather than just to listen to all the chatter that's out there. As a librarian, we know how skewed skewed social media can be. So what you're watching isn't necessarily the whole truth, you're really only getting half the story all the time, I think. So I just try to not let that overwhelm me. And then, if I am unsure, I just tried to ask somebody that I know. I feel trusted, you know, like especially like when it came to vaccines and kids and my youngest daughter has some issues. I wasn't sure I wanted to get her vaccinated at first. So I made sure that I called her doctor and talk to her doctor and didn't follow what people were saying online to ask whether or not she should get it and if they thought it was going to be safe and things like that. So I just tried to focus more on the people that I think are telling me the truth, rather than just putting guess work into it so.
SM30:03
So knowing what you do now, where we are in the pandemic, what do you think-I guess- what do you think we should keep in mind? What do you think we did wrong? And then what do you think we should do going into the future? Should there be-God forbid-another pandemic?
TE30:21
Sure. Well, I definitely believe that we should have been more strict with our shutdown. For the first at least first two weeks, I think we all should have really just stayed home. I think their their definition of essential workers was too broad. I, there was a lot of things that I'm like, No, if we all could have just taken a two week break, I think maybe we could have gotten through this a lot faster. And I just wish that you know, moving forward, I'm not really sure how we're going to fix what has fundamentally broken in our, in our society, I, it's become too political. And we're mixing science and opinion, which I think is very dangerous. Because if you can't believe the science, because you think it's somebody's opinion, as opposed to what they've proven, I don't know how you can really combat that. I, I It scares me if something more worse were to come around, not that COVID isn't worse, because it is it's terrible. But if, you know, something came through that had more like a 50% fatality rate, like I'm not sure what we would do. And it really seems that people aren't willing to believe it's real until it's affected them personally, you know, until they see somebody they know or love die because of it. I feel like nobody's going to take it- they won't take it seriously until that actually happens. So it's very scary to me as to what what's going to happen next. In the fact that there are still so many people who aren't vaccinated- who aren't willing to get vaccinated who are fighting the system that should be working for all of us is very, very frustrating to me. But I wish at the beginning, we all had just taken it all a bit more seriously and just stayed home for two weeks. Maybe we could be done. Maybe we wouldn't need to be having a public history archive of how it affected people. Because it's still ongoing. I don't think it's ending anytime soon. I don't think we're going to feel relaxed about COVID for quite a while yet.
SM32:23
Maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation in November of 2021.
TE32:27
Right, right. Exactly. Here we are almost a year and a half later. And we're still still the number one topic of conversation, unfortunately.
SM32:36
All right. Well, thank you very much for your time.
TE32:39
You’re welcome.