Item

Jason Zackowski Oral History

Media

Title (Dublin Core)

Jason Zackowski Oral History
Jason Zackowski Oral History, 2020/07/27

Description (Dublin Core)

Jason Zackowski describes what science education has been like during a global pandemic both in schools and on the internet. He discusses the transition to online learning in schools as he is head of the science department and a teacher at a high school in Red Deer, Alberta. He also shares his concerns for the planned return to school. Jason runs a science podcast as well as a popular twitter account for his dog "Bunsen Berner" which he uses to share scientific facts, research, and methods in a fun way. As such he discusses the "blowback" by members of the public on social media to scientists when it shares information regarding the virus and pandemic.

Recording Date (Dublin Core)

Creator (Dublin Core)

Partner (Dublin Core)

Controlled Vocabulary (Dublin Core)

Curator's Tags (Omeka Classic)

Contributor's Tags (a true folksonomy) (Friend of a Friend)

Collection (Dublin Core)

Date Submitted (Dublin Core)

08/06/2020

Date Modified (Dublin Core)

11/18/2020

Date Created (Dublin Core)

07/27/2020

Interviewer (Bibliographic Ontology)

Hope Gresser

Interviewer Email (Friend of a Friend)

hgresser@uwo.ca

Interviewee (Bibliographic Ontology)

Jason Zackowski

Location (Omeka Classic)

Red Deer
Alberta
Canada

Interviewee Gender (Friend of a Friend)

male

Interviewee Age (Friend of a Friend)

35 to 44

Interviewee Race/Ethnicity (Friend of a Friend)

Canadian

Format (Dublin Core)

Audio

Language (Dublin Core)

English

Duration (Omeka Classic)

00h:27m:45s

Transcription (Omeka Classic)

Interviewer: So, this is Hope Gresser. I am in Ottawa, Ontario, today’s date is the 27th of July, 2020 and it is 2:30, um, Eastern time. And I’ll just get you to say your name and where you’re from and I guess, the time where you are since it’s a different time zone.
Jason: Hmm. My name is Jason Zackowski and I am in Red Deer, Alberta, Canada. And it is Mountain time so it is 12:30pm.
I: Great, so, if you wouldn’t mind kind of giving a brief overview of who you are.
J: Oh? Like who-who I am? Who I am?
I: Who you are, what you do. [laughs]
J: Ok [laughs] Uh, ok, so my day job: I am a high school chemistry teacher. I am currently the, um, science department head for our high school. So, I teach at a large, uh, high school, called Lindsay Thurber Composite [Comprehensive?] High School.
I: mhm.
J: Um, mostly I teach chemistry and the, uh, Inter. Baccalaureate chemistry and then I also teach some general science. Uh, the other things I do: I have a podcast called The Science Podcast and more importantly than all of these things-
I: [laughs]
J: -is I have two dogs. One of them is definitely internet famous. His name is Bunsen and he is a Bernese Mountain Dog so he is Bunsen Berner. [burner]
I: [laughs]
J: And he has a, uh, social media juggernaut account on twitter that consumes my entire life.
I: [laughs]
J: So, I have a wife and two kids and we live in rural Alberta and I commute to work. And that’s probably… Oh! And I’m a big nerd and I do cosplay.
I: Right. Great. So, um, first question- because the way we do this is it goes kind of chronologically but if there- if at any point you think of something you want to say, jump in.
J: K.
I: So, what do you recall of the start of all of this? Do you remember when you first heard about the virus and what did you think about it in- like initially?
J: So [sigh] there’s a whole bunch of irony that- that has happened. Um, in my science class, we were actually looking at the numbers in Wuhan, China every day-
I: mmm!
J: And plotting the growth of the virus in Wuhan because we were looking at how bacteria grow and it’s an exponential growth curve-
I: Right.
J: And they were experiencing exponential growth. Um, and then it spread to Wuhan to Europe and when it got to Italy that’s when more data, you know, more reliable data- we’ll say quote-unquote “reliable” data started to come out because things out of China, everybody was a little skeptical of…
I: mhm.
J: With their government and the way that they operate with information. And that’s when- when it got to Italy and then we saw the deaths in, uh, Italy, that’s when it started to get scary for kids and I was kind of regretting plotting [laughs]-
I: mmm.
J: - the growth of the virus around the world. And kids were like “is it going to come here?” and I’m like “probably not.”
I: hmm.
J: And then literally about a week later there were cases in Vancouver and Toronto and then about a week after that… hockey shut down and then we were shut down two days later. So, it was like very very quickly after I told the kids [laughs]
I: [laughs]
J: like “Don’t-don’t” ‘cuz I was always- like I always approached it from “Don’t panic.”
I: Right.
J: “It’s spreading; don’t panic.” Right, “We’re safe here,” and then we weren’t safe. Or, we- the idea was we weren’t safe and we were being shut down.
I: Right.
J: Like that happened within- that happened extremely rapidly. I think NHL shut down Wednesday? It was a Wednesday, I think. I don’t even remember the date- the actual date but it was a Wednesday. And I taught- we taught Thursday-Friday and Friday was a Gong Show because we were, as department heads, we were meeting like “what’s going to happen? Everything’s shutting down.” I had kids- we were going to the Marine Biology Centre in Banfield on Friday. Like, we were flying to Vancouver with this group of kids-
I: Oh wow!
J: And that was up in the air if it was going to get cancelled and then it was cancelled. So I remember it was very chaotic and then the government announced school was shut down-
I: So-
J: That weekend of Sunday.
I: Ok, yeah, I was going to say “so was it before or after.” So then, yeah, so did you- was it just kind of you didn’t get to go back into the classrooms for anything or was there a little bit of more lee room or was it just…
J: Nope. No, we were allowed, um… so there were… To make a long story short: we were- all of the teachers in the high school, like, we were all professional.
I: mmm
J: We were ready to teach kids Monday. We were- we were totally ready to go Monday. Uh, like everybody worked their butts off on that Sunday, once the announcement came out, to be ready, on Monday, to teach kids online. And then the division was like “Whoa!”
I: [laughs]
J: “Hold- Hold on!” ‘Cuz not everybody was ready.
I: mhm.
J: Um, so they gave everybody a week. So, we had a- the kids were at home for a week without learning and then the following week we started. And it was a massive learning curve, I remember, for a lot of people in the department. Like, it was a- it was like an emotional struggle. We had parents with young kids who lost care for kids. We had teachers who didn’t use technology having to learn. Yeah, so it was- we were allowed to come into school; um, the school was not shut down to us. So, I being a leader of the department, I went into the school every day. Um, and we just socially distance ourselves, like we would see each other at lunch and wave (right?) but you were in your classroom by yourself.
I: Right.
J: mhm.
I: Um, then how did the kids handle that transition? So…
J: [sigh] Um… I taught mostly academic kids so- like, uh, the-the Inter. Baccalaureate program is very academic-
I: Yup
J: But I did have a Science 20 General Science class, um. So, the kids were, of course worried. Like “How are we going to learn? What are we going to do? What are they- what?” The academic kids were like- uh, ‘cuz homework was due that Monday. [laughs] And kids were-
I: [laughs] right.
J: -freaking out and trying to hand stuff in. Um, taking pictures of it and trying to send it to me by email.
I: mmm
J: Um, the less academic kids were like, “Woohoo a week off!” Right? So they were, like, super happy. Just like any- I was happy when I was a kid when there was a Snow Day- I don’t know if you had Snow Days out in Ontario, yeah.
I: Oh yes, I’m-
J: Yeah [overlapping]
I: I’m in Ottawa so we still get snow. [laughs] [overlapping]
J: You get snow- I’m just trying to think; there are places in Canada that don’t get snow like Alberta.
I: No, yeah.
J: Or you do, like Vancouver, you know, it’s one little skiff and the whole thing shuts down. [laughs]
I: [laughs] yeah
J: Um, [laughs], yeah but um, yeah, the kids were happy. Um, and once we got into groove of it there was a huge buy-in to start with but there’s just some kids that never came back.
I: mmm
J: And those are the kids that we are all very concerned about: that when school shut down: they didn’t engage, they didn’t do anything, they didn’t sign in: nothing. They were- they just ghosted the school.
I: mmm
J: Um, so we’re very concerned about those kids come September. Which is like a month from now.
I: Mhm. So, what did a typical day look like before? What does it look like now? We’ve had a couple of different iterations now-
J: [laughs]
I: that there’s been, like, stages and things like that going around-
J: Yeah
I: So, like, I don’t know, what did it look like at different points during the pandemic for you?
J: Ok, so my busiest day would be- my s… my youngest son, he’s in grade 9, he’s very good at band.
I: mhm
J: So, he would have early morning band that started at 7 in the morning. So, I would get him to the school at 7, either I would work out or get prepped for the day. And I would have a very busy day: I’d teach all morning, have lunch, and teach all afternoon. As department head, I got a “prep” [pause]
I: mhm
J: So, I had one block of time, um, and I would use that block of time to work on department goals, talk- troubleshoot issues that other teachers in the department have, help them with resources. Uh, that was my day. And then when covid happened, basically, I didn’t have to get to school as early because Adam wasn’t -my youngest son- wasn’t allowed to come in at all. Band was cancelled. Um, there was no need for me to be in my classroom super early. So, maybe I got into school a little bit later, uh, and then I taught online. So, the morning was uh, prep and then we had our, uh, our Google Meets. Kids could log into Google and then meet with us. So, that was the afternoon, everyday, and it became a blur after about two months.
I: [laughs] Yes, for everyone.
J: Yes!
I: [laughs] So what are- because it’s different for every-
J: It’s ok.
I: -Jurisdiction and stuff like that, what are you guys doing as far as going back, since you said, September is a month away.
J: Yeah, I’m just going to move locations right now…
I: Yeah
J: If you can just give me two minutes [pause on recording]
I: [recording resumed] Alright, yeah, not a problem. Um, so, just because it’s different in every jurisdiction what are you guys planning on doing in September? What’s the plan in terms of going back to school?
J: Uh, we have no idea.
I: Ok cool.
J: Zero idea. Very much a lot of stress, frustration, and panic. The government just announced schools will be open; students will be coming back and my chem. classes have like, between 32 and 38 kids in them. Covid spread as easily in a 17-year-old as it does in a 40-year-old.
I: mhm
J: So, we’re like “What?” And the government made that decision while socially distancing themselves.
I: [laughs]
J: So that was the big irony, right? Like, they made this decision and they’re, you know, they’re two or four metres apart from each other. [laughs] And yeah, so we are- I am very very frustrated. Um, like they’re basically like “yeah, have the kids wash their hands: good luck.” Uh, ok. So, I don’t-
I: And have you heard- sorry go ahead.
J: I- That’s all we know; we know the kids are going to be back in September. There’s- it is impossible for us to socially distance our kids-
I: Yeah
J: In high school
I: Yeah
J: We are very very frustrated. I mean, I am not- I feel like I’m a healthy guy but there have been people who have been 40 that have died from covid. There’s 50-year-old, 60-year-old people at the school, right? Who knows what these kids have at home, if they’re living with grandparents? So, I don’t know. I think I am concerned about this decision, especially when other provinces and countries have had kids go back to school and done a better job of keeping everybody safe.
11:00
I: And-
J: That’s more of a political statement [unintelligible]
I: [laughs]
J: But that’s my opinion. Yeah
I: And, what have -have you heard from other teachers or students about what their feelings on that are?
J: Well, the kids want to go back to school. The academic kids want to go back to school.
I: Right
J: Online learning wasn’t great for anybody. Like-
I: Yeah
J: I’m not saying I don’t want to teach kids face to face I’m just saying that you cram 36 kids in a classroom with me, we’re all breathing on each other. If one kid has covid in that room, we’re all going to get it. Like, there’s- you- I mean it’s no different than um, like- um, there was a Hutterite funeral in Alberta, right?
I: mhm
J: I don’t know if you heard that in the news. It was like 1200 Hutterites went to this big funeral in southern Alberta. It was a tragedy; 3 kids drowned. So, the families came, and then now we have huge outbreaks in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba from this funeral. Like that was just- and that was just one funeral where everybody was joining- joined together. Like, imagine a school with like 1800 kids: not difference; you’re just breathing on each other. Like, it’s going to spread, right?
I: Yeah. They’re now using those communities, those Hutterite communities as, uh, studies.
J: Yeah
I: Case studies, to see how it spreads within closed communities-
J: Yeah.
I: Since that went down.
J: So, that’s the irony: what’s a school?
I: Yup
J: A school’s basically a Hutterite community. [laughs]
I: Um, [laughs] so… [drumming noise] … Are you spending more or less time inside the house or at home right now than you were before?
J: Um, we are very fortunate. We are very privileged. Um, we live in the country so our lives changed virtually nothing from covid. I can spend as much time outside as I want as I did before because we live on a farm. Right, so I don’t have to worry about anything with that. So, I mean, I can take the dogs for a walk exactly the same way as I did before. I mean, when we shut down there was still snow so I was cross country skiing and snowshoeing. Nothing changed for us. So, we were very very privileged fortunate.
I: A-
J: As oppose to a family that might be in an apartment, right?
I: Yeah. Yeah, and since you mentioned the dogs… [laughs]
J: mhm
I: That was how I knew to get in contact with you; is I follow your dogs on twitter, um…
J: Yeah
I: So, you use that platform to discuss science quite a bit.
J: Yup
I: And you have encountered some nay-sayers. Would you be willing to talk a little bit about that and…
J: Yeah, yup. Bunsen’s account is so big now that any scientific post that he does he gets blowback. ‘Cuz you know, there’s a fringe people that are conspiracy theories- theorists on everything. Um, the big, the big one was masks, the wearing of masks. And originally, um, there wasn’t a lot of evidence that wearing any kind of masks would help.
I: mhm
J: And then, uh, because it’s a new virus, as the new research came out… Science changes its opinion based on data and now you should wear a cloth mask. Um, that does help. And there’s been, like, enormous blowback from cloth masks. Ther’s been some blowback that covid is no different than a cold. Um, so, and- and those people on- and Bunsen’s a dog account!
I: Yeah
J: Like, 50% of the posts are adorable, uplifting, cute posts and 50% are science and you’re going to have- you have people wasting their day trying to argue with a dog? Like that’s just- it’s just bizarre, right? But I think because Bunsen, the account, is a dog account I get less of that than a human would, for sure.
I: mmm
J: So, yeah, we do get some blowback and occasionally I try to have some positive discourse, um, but if it’s a conspiracy theory there’s nothing you can do about that. Like, they’ve made up their mind; I can’t- if you think Bill Gates is in charge of a New World Order and wanting to inject microchips into people with a vaccine there’s really nothing a dog account can do to change your opinion on that.
I: Yeah
J: [laughs]
I: Yeah. So, when you said, like, that you think you get less of it have you… ‘cuz I’m assuming you are involved in the community online, a little bit, have you been seeing that with other people-
J: [overlapping] Oh yeah!
I: -And what has been their reaction?
J: Oh yeah, so, it’s kind of a hierarchy: if you’re a- and it’s terrible- if you’re a woman [pause] scientist
I: mmm
J: you get way more of that virt- uh, way more of that (what’s the word I’m trying to say?) like caustic, gross blowback.
I: K.
J: And if you’re a person of colour, who’s a woman, who’s a scientist it’s even more.
I: Yeah.
J: So, Bunsen being a dog, is- he’s, like, its own category, right? Um, and they’re like- any female epidemiologist: you just have to go through their comments on anything they post and it’s way worse than Bunsen gets- Bunsen gets when he posts. And it’s just the misogyny that’s out there and the- the… Because Twitter is- you can have an anonymous account, you know?
I: Mhm
J: You can say horrible stuff and hide behind an egg as your picture on Twitter. Um, and I’m sure they just get tired of it and they just- they don’t even bother with those people; they just block, block, block, block, block. ‘Cuz that’s what we do too and-
I: [overlapping] Right
J: Yeah, yeah, and it’s something that’s- and maybe that’s- I- on my podcast I do try my best to promote, um, people of colour and who are female to get their, you know, get their passion out there in science.
I: Right, great. I’ll jump back to you now [laughs] from the dogs.
J: mhm
I: Um, so, how does this compare to any kind of epidemics, pandemics, health crises that you have-
J: [laughs]
I: -Um, lived through in the past? And, um… yeah. Why do you think- why do you think this one has been so different, if it has been, or is it similar in any way?
J: Well, I remember swine flu was a concern. Like my, um, we had kids that were out who got swine flu,
I: Mhm
J: Like a while ago. But it was not- like it wasn’t as deadly as covid. Like covid… that- we won’t know exactly the mortality of covid but early data has it anywhere from .5 to 1%.
I: Mhm
J: Um, so that’s like way worse than the flu and way worse than swine flu. Like, swine flu was like maybe, uh, 1.5 times as deadly as normal flu?
I: Mhm
J: Um, so kids got that and they were out. And- and it was so little of a problem for us that we would joke about it: that kids got swine flu. And maybe we’d have, like, those thermometers, with the… infrared thermometers, and we would, like, check kids’ temperatures on the way in to class and kick kids out if they were too high, kind of like zombies.
I: mmm
J: So, it was, you know, something we didn’t really take serious, whereas, this is so serious. Uh, like, you just had to look at what happened in Italy. Right? Italy was like- we were seeing thousands of people die everyday, right?
I: Mhm
J: And Italy’s, like, a small country so it made it very real that this was very serious. Um, and then everything shut down so fast, so this is like nothing I’ve lived through, at all. Um, the-the most thing I can think about is my parents telling us of, um, polio.
I: Right.
J: Um, because my grandmother contracted polio and then lost the ability to walk. And they would always- she would have stories about, during the time before the [jenner?] vaccine for polio it was the same thing: like you were- weddings were cancelled, you couldn’t gather, people were terrified of getting polio, um, and there was no vaccine for it. And I want to say polio wasn’t even as contagious as covid.
I: Yeah
J: I’d have to check the stats on that; I’m not sure if that’s right.
I: I seem to recall that as well but I also…am not a scientist. Um…
J: Hmm
I: So, what’s the mood with your family and friends, and how are they responding to this?
J: Um, I think initially, because my wife is a teacher too, we were stressed about how to roll out online learning. And then once we got the hang of it, because we’re both pretty tech savvy, it went pretty good. Um, the stress level for us, is rising because we’re wondering how we are going- and the kids are going to be safe when we go back to school.
I: mhm
J: Right? My wife teaches middle school and I teach high school. Middle school and high school kids spread covid as adults easily as adults. They just do.
I: mhm
J: They are not as at risk. So that stress level is definitely rising. There was definitely- with all of our teacher colleagues there was like a… I don’t even want to- I don’t know if I should call it depression, because it wasn’t depression, but we were all like… [pause, sigh] kind of like… [pause, sigh] not run down. I’m trying to think of like the- like our energy level was so low because when you’re- when you teach kids you have to match their energy level, right?
I: Mhm
J: When you think about the best teachers you’ve had they’re passionate and they’re energetic and engaging and that is lost with online learning. Um, so, everybody, by the end of it, we just like “aw, this is just” we were just- “this is the worst.” Everybody’s safe, um, but everybody was, I guess, just disengaged with their job.
I: Mhm
J: Still doing the best they could but… yeah.
I: Fatigued? Is that the word you were looking for?
J: Yeah, maybe fatigued? It’s like every day blurred into the next like-
I: Yeah
J: “Oh, it’s, like, Wednesday? I thought it was Monday!”
I: [laughs]
J: Like, days had no meaning, um, yeah.
I: And your kids? How are they? How did they cope with the online learning and how are they doing?
J: [overlapping] My oldest son, he’s graduated and he works at Save On in the meat department. So, he kept his job. Uh, and at the start he was really stressed out about how they would keep him safe but he’s far enough away from the public [pause]
I: Mhm
J: Um, that he- he felt his job was kind of safe. And then my youngest son was a little… for the first couple of months he was, like, lost because he’s big into band, that was cancelled. He’s in marching band, that was cancelled. Everything’s online and he’s quite smart so his online learning was done in about two hours in the morning, so… [laughs] He’s had a lot of downtime.
I: Yeah.
J: He’s looking- he’s looking forward to getting back with his friends. But, of course, that’s the big issue, right? All the kids want to hang out with friends in big groups. Um, covid isn’t gone.
I: What are the restrictions on that like in Alberta right now? In terms of groups and gatherings and stuff like that.
J: Uh, it’s- any type of gathering is discouraged really. I think you can- I’d have to check the actual levels, uh, I think you can gather in groups of 20 or less? But even that you’re really not supposed to.
I: Yeah.
J: Like- they’re like limit it as much as possible- or just don’t.
I: Right.
J: Um, but you hear everyday about people having weddings of hundreds of people and you’re like “You’re… why?!” [laughs]
I: [laughs]
J: You know? Like, I get it, I get it, you’ve maybe’ve planned your wedding and it’s time to have it and… but it’s dangerous.
I: Um, so, if you were to be making an exhibit or writing a history book or a memoir (or something like that) about the pandemic, what would you want people to know?
J: [Groans] I’m not sure. I- I would be curious about what historians recorded about the Spanish Flu because, like, that was the last epidemic that took the world hostage, basically.
I: Mhm
J: Was there the same level of- of- it’s not like there’s a lot people but there’s a certain percentage of people that think about themselves before others.
I: Yeah, yeah.
J: Like, if you’re going to lose your job… I totally get that! I didn’t lose my job, so I don’t know what it’s like for people who lost their job and had to go on CERB from the government and wanting to get back to work. Like, I- I feel for those people but it’s like- the people that are like “I’m going to do what I want to do. I’m going to have a gathering. My wedding’s going to go on. I’m not going to wear a mask. Screw all you guys. I’m looking out for me. I’m more important.” I’m wondering if that happened during the Spanish Flu too, if that’s just human nature. That there’s just this inherent selfer-self-selfishness in a certain percentage of people, that no matter what anybody says they’re just going to do what they’re going to do.
I: Yeah
J: Um, and the consequences be damned. Um I will- yeah-[overlapping]
I: [overlapping] Two things- two things for the record- for the record, uh, CERB is- just ‘cuz Americans might be listening to this [laughs]
J: Oh yeah!
I: CERB is Canadian Emergency Response Benefit-
J: Yeah
I: And then yes, I can tell you, as a historian, that they did. There were anti-mask meetings and organizations and then they all also got the Spanish Flu so [laughs] this is- this is not unprecedented in the least in that regard.
J: So it’s just inherent in humans that there’s a certain percentage of us that are just assholes.
I: Yeah
J: Like just a bunch of selfish jerks.
I: Yeah, and it was put into Canadian law that you had to wear a mask or you would be arrested.
J: Well we may get there.
I: We may get there; we’re not there yet.
J: No.
I: Um, do you guys have a mask mandate? Now that I think about it.
J: No, not Red Deer. Uh, Calgary- Mayor Nenshi in Calgary, he just put one in that all public places, uh, you need to be wearing a mask. I don’t know if that includes school. Like the government of Alberta has been super coy about-
I: mmm
J: -bout masks in schools. Like I get not putting masks on a kindergartener kid because they’re going to eat it-
I: [laughs]
J: -or fling it but high school kids can wear masks. Like, they can. Like you can- you can tell a grade 10 kid wear a mask and make it like you either wear the mask or you don’t get to come to school. Um, like, you can do that. Do, I’m not sure why- I’m not sure- that’s a big puzzle for me right now. So yeah… Well that’s good to know that there was just as many idiots back in the Spanish Flu times as there is now, so…
I: Yeah [laughs]
J: I think they just didn’t have Twitter of Facebook or social media-
I: No.
J: -To spread their idiocy around as quickly.
I: They had leaflets which is great ‘cuz then we saved the leaflets but you know… [laughs]
J: Oooh. Yeah.
I: Um, so was there anything else that you would like to be on the record? Anything else you’d like anyone to know?
J: I think, like, because I’m a scientist and I teach science I wonder if this needs to be a huge part of the next- like teaching kids that the authority of science will change its mind based on data. That seems to be the biggest problem right now.
I: Mhm
J: Like people will say [putting on a voice] “Well scientists said in January bleh-bleh-bleh-bleh-bleh-
I: Yeah
J: “- and now they’re saying bleh-bleh-bleh” and it’s because I don’t know if those people took an advanced science class-
I: Right.
J: -That explained that science moves based on data.
I: Mhm
J: And it’s not a conspiracy. It’s not because, you know, there’s a New World Order lurking out there behind, um, the WE charity or whatever the new conspiracy there is. Um, yeah, that’s- that’s what I think people need to know from a scientific perspective: is that there has been- a- maybe not as much in Canada but you can see it in the United States- a colossal failure of science education. Um, because which country is doing the worst right now? It’s the United States. And I- I’m- and the amount of disregarding for public health is just- it’s just bamboozling me. [laughs]
I: Alright, well-
J: Sorry that’s-
I: N-No
J: Well, who cares: I don’t know if anybody’s going to be listening- If you’re listening to this and you’re in the future: don’t be a jerk!
I: Yeah
J: There’s my PSA!
I: [Laughs] Alright. Well, I think we’re done then if we- if you don’t – if we don’t have anything else.
J: Nope, I’m good.
I: Alright.

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